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This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. As much as I don't want Romney as CinC, I absolutely believe BHO is worse. Given that the chances of someone else to get in is zero, I'd rather take a slightly greater that 50/50 chance that the conservative side of him will appoint new conservative replacements for the Supreme Court. If I don't take that chance, and BHO stays, then it's about a 10/90 or 0/100 chance that BHO will bring in more of the likes of Sotomayor and Kagan, who both have expressed anti-2A decisions.

Look at it this way, if Romney comes in and gets a few conservative judges in and you don't like him, vote him out, but at least we have some justices that will stay and hopefully defend not only our 2A rights, but ALL rights as written in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
 
This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. As much as I don't want Romney as CinC, I absolutely believe BHO is worse. Given that the chances of someone else to get in is zero, I'd rather take a slightly greater that 50/50 chance that the conservative side of him will appoint new conservative replacements for the Supreme Court. If I don't take that chance, and BHO stays, then it's about a 10/90 or 0/100 chance that BHO will bring in more of the likes of Sotomayor and Kagan, who both have expressed anti-2A decisions.

Look at it this way, if Romney comes in and gets a few conservative judges in and you don't like him, vote him out, but at least we have some justices that will stay and hopefully defend not only our 2A rights, but ALL rights as written in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Sounds like you still have hope that this country can turn around. That's nice, but it is a stance that is hopelessly delusional.

I'm yearning for the time to start watering the tree of liberty again, as Jefferson put it.
 
If you think I'm delusional, then so are most on this and other forums discussing this very topic. I am active in my own decisions. If you just allow yourself to be like so many people who own firearms and don't even have a membership in any of the many rights organizations, then you're just in the way. I'd hope that you aren't one of them.

There is safety in numbers, and action in numbers. If a person owns firearms worth hundreds to thousands to exercise their freedom but can't spend $40 to join the NRA or SAF to maintain that freedom, how can I trust that person to even vote for a presidential candidate? You don't even have to be a member if you don't like the organization but they represent all of us and it costs money to carry the weight of all of us.
 
This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. As much as I don't want Romney as CinC, I absolutely believe BHO is worse. Given that the chances of someone else to get in is zero, I'd rather take a slightly greater that 50/50 chance that the conservative side of him will appoint new conservative replacements for the Supreme Court. If I don't take that chance, and BHO stays, then it's about a 10/90 or 0/100 chance that BHO will bring in more of the likes of Sotomayor and Kagan, who both have expressed anti-2A decisions.

Look at it this way, if Romney comes in and gets a few conservative judges in and you don't like him, vote him out, but at least we have some justices that will stay and hopefully defend not only our 2A rights, but ALL rights as written in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Simple question: who is more likely to drag us into another war (Iran, Syria, etc) - Obama or Romney ?
 
If you think I'm delusional, then so are most on this and other forums discussing this very topic. I am active in my own decisions. If you just allow yourself to be like so many people who own firearms and don't even have a membership in any of the many rights organizations, then you're just in the way. I'd hope that you aren't one of them.

There is safety in numbers, and action in numbers. If a person owns firearms worth hundreds to thousands to exercise their freedom but can't spend $40 to join the NRA or SAF to maintain that freedom, how can I trust that person to even vote for a presidential candidate? You don't even have to be a member if you don't like the organization but they represent all of us and it costs money to carry the weight of all of us.

Not that it matters, but I am a NRA and GOA member.

Your stance is delusional because your "numbers" cannot possibly match up against the masses of voters the government has bribed and co-opted with your taxpayer money. That's why this country is in a race to be the bottom, because government violence and confiscation has been legitimized, legalized and celebrated in the name of fairness, social justice, what have you.

The government can pick and choose what segment of society to attack. The only reason 2A still exists is because the government is busy stripping away what's left of our economic rights first. When the ruling class decide to eliminate 2A, no amount of NRA lobbying will stop it.
 
Not that it matters, but I am a NRA and GOA member.

The government can pick and choose what segment of society to attack. The only reason 2A still exists is because the government is busy stripping away what's left of our economic rights first. When the ruling class decide to eliminate 2A, no amount of NRA lobbying will stop it.

Government is voted in. Justices are appointed in. Regardless of your level of conspiracy, we need the right justices because they don't get voted in or out. The opportunity to get a correct thinking group is now, otherwise it's an extremely long time that we will have to wait for at least two to be replaced due to death or retirement.

FD15K: What does your question about another war have to do with the topic of this thread?

We all have different priorities on what is important for a president, Supreme Court, or even a wife. Do you agree with EVERYTHING that your wife believes? Yet you're still married.
 
If anyone thinks Romney will nominate "conservative" judges then all you have to look at is John Roberts who was appointed by Bush (who was far from a conservative) and how he voted on Obamacare.

We are screwed if we have four more years of either Romney or Obama. Our individual rights continue to be under attack from both sides.
 
I hesitate to use the word "delusional" to describe people's political beliefs. I prefer to think of them as "Not quite aware of the severity".

Money, banks and corporations rig the media and the vote to put their puppets in power.

Your vote doesn't determine who wins. Money does.
Your candidate doesn't choose the justices. Money does.

Your vote lets the masses know what ideals we support.

I believe there will be a showdown at some point. The government also believe there will be a showdown.

I only pray enough people are brave enough to stick up for our country and our constitution and end these banks rule over us.

I pray our military disobeys the banks orders to silence us.

Like optiontrigger said. We may not agree on all things, but when it comes down to it, we are all on the same team, and hopefully share the desire for liberty, justice and our constitutional freedom from oppression.
 
If anyone thinks Romney will nominate "conservative" judges then all you have to look at is John Roberts who was appointed by Bush (who was far from a conservative) and how he voted on Obamacare.

We are screwed if we have four more years of either Romney or Obama. Our individual rights continue to be under attack from both sides.

So a 50/50 chance of Romney doing something that hasn't even happened yet is automatically equivalent to what Bush did in 2005/2006 and what Obama already proven by doing twice (2009 and 2010)? This doesn't make sense. Bush also appointed Alito, by the way.
 
I hesitate to use the word "delusional" to describe people's political beliefs. I prefer to think of them as "Not quite aware of the severity".

Money, banks and corporations rig the media and the vote to put their puppets in power.

Your vote doesn't determine who wins. Money does.
Your candidate doesn't choose the justices. Money does.

Your vote lets the masses know what ideals we support.

I believe there will be a showdown at some point. The government also believe there will be a showdown.

I only pray enough people are brave enough to stick up for our country and our constitution and end these banks rule over us.

I pray our military disobeys the banks orders to silence us.

Like optiontrigger said. We may not agree on all things, but when it comes down to it, we are all on the same team, and hopefully share the desire for liberty, justice and our constitutional freedom from oppression.
 
And we have people in this country who want to remove the second amendment because they feel that it doesn't apply anymore outside of the black-powder age. Stranger yet, we have people who don't even live in this country dictating that we should remove the second amendment altogether.

Unfortunately we need somebody at the top to make sure the president and his scheisters du-jour don't bow down to them. And that's where this thread has taken us since those experts on the bench all have their biases. Not to say that conservatives are right in all their decisions - we're only discussing 2A.
 
And we have people in this country who want to remove the second amendment because they feel that it doesn't apply anymore outside of the black-powder age. Stranger yet, we have people who don't even live in this country dictating that we should remove the second amendment altogether.

Unfortunately we need somebody at the top to make sure the president and his scheisters du-jour don't bow down to them. And that's where this thread has taken us since those experts on the bench all have their biases. Not to say that conservatives are right in all their decisions - we're only discussing 2A.



Amen brother. Btw, I am also a card carrying member of the NRA.

It sometimes seems hopeless, but there have been enough people buying/owning guns in the last year to really send a message to the government that A: We are serious about our gun ownership and not just using it as a hobby, but as a method for self defense, and to keep the balance of power in balance and B: That guns aren't just for black powder.

Gun sales have been the #1 income generator and one of the largest employment industries of this recession. It creates more jobs than we can afford to lose.

The problem is, the banks/powers-that-be (Not the politicians) KNOW they will not be able to take our guns or even legislate our guns away. We will simply not give them up.

This means they are going to force either a civil war or a national collapse and destroy the economy and our lives to remove our guns, and our property and take what little freedom/prosperity remains to us.

Getting THAT message out, and having our eyes open to what's going on, and confronting injustice and unconstitutional behavior is our only recourse at this point.

I still say Vote Ron Paul, but not because I think "they" will let him win, but because we need to maintain solidarity and a single voice. If we splinter, we will be defeated, shuffled off to re-education camps and get to walk the streets with shock collars on our necks.
 
I'm independent and have voiced my frustration at this two-party "lying thieves" system for over 20 years. Each election cycle, my self-esteem has been shot down when my candidate doesn't get enough votes to even get a consolation prize.:s0114:

This time I'd like Ron Paul to win but knowing that it won't happen, I have to look at the next tier on the pyramid and see the issue with the Supreme Court. At the next election cycle after the "preferred" justices get appointed, if Ron Paul is still willing to fill the CiC position, I'll be all in.
 
So a 50/50 chance of Romney doing something that hasn't even happened yet is automatically equivalent to what Bush did in 2005/2006 and what Obama already proven by doing twice (2009 and 2010)? This doesn't make sense. Bush also appointed Alito, by the way.

The original premise of this thread was the argument that we had to vote Romney because he would put in conservative pro-2nd amendment justices. Today is a perfect example of how that isn't necessarily true. Especially when you consider that Romney is much less pro-2nd amendment than Bush was.

My main point is that both parties are useless and not worth supporting.
 
I think you're missing the point,

I agree they're the same and in 4 years of presidency there will be little difference, Supreme court justices though are appointed for life and that is a long term problem, if we swing the balance to the leftists your constitutional rights will suffer long term and our freedoms will be suffer.

Didn't matter today, did it?

What are WE to do when the those supreme judges rule something to be Constitutional when WE THE PEOPLE say it is not.
What are WE to do when the judges and the government decides it for US?

Is this what the founding fathers meant for US in OUR country?
 

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