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I had an FFL for several years & the vast majority of delayed people are never given a 'proceed' designation by the fbi/nics. I am convinced that is done on purpose.

It sounds as if you "had an FFL" meaning you were a licensed gun dealer? Or was it you used a particular gun dealer for your transfers who experienced a "vast majority" of his/her delayed BG checks never being proceeded?

In either case, you said you are convinced it was done on purpose, what do you imagine that purpose to be?
 
It sounds as if you "had an FFL" meaning you were a licensed gun dealer? Or was it you used a particular gun dealer for your transfers who experienced a "vast majority" of his/her delayed BG checks never being proceeded?

In either case, you said you are convinced it was done on purpose, what do you imagine that purpose to be?

I was licensed and the reason is the atf/fbi don't care beyond a certain professional amount about Our gun rights. Being that I'm on my second felony prior and now have had my rights restored twice I have had more experience with them than most people do. Truth is law enforcement at the federal level don't all seem to think us citizens having guns is a good idea. Some states obviously agree--
 
I have been waiting 23 months for my UPIN..... I would not count on it being a quick answer to your problems.

Took me two years to get my present Upin
two years prior I mailed in copies of my DL, the rights restoration papers & my fingerprints, everything was done on their paperwork too:eek:

My cleo told me he'd sign again if I want to try for a second FFL,
but I think I had enough fun with that already
 
I was licensed and the reason is the atf/fbi don't care beyond a certain professional amount about Our gun rights. Being that I'm on my second felony prior and now have had my rights restored twice I have had more experience with them than most people do. Truth is law enforcement at the federal level don't all seem to think us citizens having guns is a good idea. Some states obviously agree--

Thanks for clarifying billdeserthills, my experience with the FBI was favorable when I got denied back in 2010 but these days a deny could mean years of lost gun rights. That's what went through my mind when I was denied again out the blue last year; FBI called the gun dealer the next day and said they messed up, changed the deny to a proceed. Maybe I just got lucky in my dealings with them.

I do empathize though with others who are wrongfully denied, then told we'll get back to you in a couple years.
 
There is another reason for delays. I know in my case and was told by the BATF that I get delayed because they do not know what the reason is and until they do they cannot give the ok.
Another thing on the UPIN, I was told that getting a UPIN gives the BATF permission to keep the info on your gun purchase indefinitely but do not know if that is true or not. Maybe someone on here can tell me if this is true or not.
 
There is another reason for delays. I know in my case and was told by the BATF that I get delayed because they do not know what the reason is and until they do they cannot give the ok.
Another thing on the UPIN, I was told that getting a UPIN gives the BATF permission to keep the info on your gun purchase indefinitely but do not know if that is true or not. Maybe someone on here can tell me if this is true or not.

A UPIN is an identifier which allows you associate a background check with a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF).

If something in the databases the FBI considers when conducting a NICS check reliably results in a DENY, and it should not result in a DENY, that person is a good candidate for creating a VAF.

What this means from a practical standpoint is if a person gets DENIED for the same reason which, when appealed, results in a PROCEED, why not cut to the chase and stop the nonsense?

So, 4473, DENY, APPEAL, PROCEED. That's more or less how a UPIN works.

An over-the-counter gun sale with a UPIN does require an FBI examiner to be involved which is why UPIN 4473s are often delayed; there are only so many examiners.

Not trying to be preachy here, just stating what I've observed over the years.
 
There is another reason for delays. I know in my case and was told by the BATF that I get delayed because they do not know what the reason is and until they do they cannot give the ok.
Another thing on the UPIN, I was told that getting a UPIN gives the BATF permission to keep the info on your gun purchase indefinitely but do not know if that is true or not. Maybe someone on here can tell me if this is true or not.

I understand that having a U-Pin# does allow the fbi/nics to keep track of your gun purchases indefinitely--but really, what's the difference, the ATF folks would come into my gunshop once a year and take all my files back to their lair--I'm 100% sure they entered all that 4473 info into their computers
 
A UPIN is an identifier which allows you associate a background check with a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF).

If something in the databases the FBI considers when conducting a NICS check reliably results in a DENY, and it should not result in a DENY, that person is a good candidate for creating a VAF.

What this means from a practical standpoint is if a person gets DENIED for the same reason which, when appealed, results in a PROCEED, why not cut to the chase and stop the nonsense?

So, 4473, DENY, APPEAL, PROCEED. That's more or less how a UPIN works.

An over-the-counter gun sale with a UPIN does require an FBI examiner to be involved which is why UPIN 4473s are often delayed; there are only so many examiners.

Not trying to be preachy here, just stating what I've observed over the years.


So are you saying when I get a delay it is actually a denial up until it gets appealed and they go with the proceed. But with a UPIN the same information that got me the original "DENI" is now kept in a permanent file? But without the UPIN that same info is not kept on file?
 
I understand that having a U-Pin# does allow the fbi/nics to keep track of your gun purchases indefinitely--but really, what's the difference, the ATF folks would come into my gunshop once a year and take all my files back to their lair--I'm 100% sure they entered all that 4473 info into their computers

Yes, and thanks to I 594 (universal background check) it no longer makes a difference here in Washington State.
 
So are you saying when I get a delay it is actually a denial up until it gets appealed and they go with the proceed. But with a UPIN the same information that got me the original "DENI" is now kept in a permanent file? But without the UPIN that same info is not kept on file?

Let me answer with an example. I was buying a gun in Renton last year when another customer was denied. I happen to know the shopkeep very well, he shook his head and told me the customer has been denied every time he bought a gun there, for years, because his brother is a felon and they have very similar identifying characteristics. This customer has prevailed on every appeal, he always gets the gun, he just has to wait. Suggestions that he request a VAF and UPIN have fallen on deaf ears for whatever reason. If he were to get a UPIN and allow the NICS to keep the information on file with which he successfully appealed in the past, it's highly unlikely he'd be denied going forward.

In this case, even if he did receive a VAF and a UPIN, that would not change his brother's felony record; when a NICS contract call center runs a BG check, they will get a hit. With a UPIN, the BG check will be kicked up to an examiner who'll appeal and proceed the transfer all in one step, effectively short-circuiting the buyer having to do the same thing.

Circling back to your questions the answer is yes, without a VAF/UPIN subsequent transfers are almost certain to be denied unless the underlying reason for the deny goes away, like having rights restored. With a VAF/UPIN it's unlikely transfers will be denied, unless new prohibitive information is discovered.

BTW, if a person with a VAF/UPIN gets denied because of new prohibitive information, NICS destroys the VAF and inactivates the UPIN. The person gets to start all over again from square one :(
 

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