Time to move?

[R3dundantC]

How one can move, and look at their neighbor and know they are abandoning the fight leaving their neighbor to do the dirty work. How does one do that ?

It's pretty easy when it self preservation. The fact of the matter is that Oregon is lost. We will not out vote the antigunners.
Those that stay have 2 options. Comply, or not comply. If you comply, then you are abetting the anti gunners. If you choose to not comply, if/when you are caught you will be treated like the criminal you have become. And even if you are in the not comply camp, by you staying you are supporting the regime through your tax dollars.

I hate to go to this analogy but all the smart Jews left Germany when they saw what was coming. Staying behind to help your neighbors didn't help or change anything. Or like those people that stay behind during an impending natural disaster. All the warning signs are here, if you choose to ride out the storm you cannot blame your neighbors for leaving and not leaving you with any support.

This is not jumping ship as much as it is consolidating forces. If everyone that values freedom moved to states that also value freedom, you bolster the defenses against attacks there.

 

[arakboss]

Yeah, might need to form an underground railroad as well to get people to the free states after we are made slaves.

The question is how do you do that without coming across as doing paramilitary activity:

ORS 166.660 - Unlawful paramilitary activity - 2017 Oregon Revised Statutes

I mean you got a bunch of guys into guns getting together and I'm sure a lot of us do our own gunsmithing. Sure would be easy to arrest us for that if we started organizing.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, a bit.

Elon can dig a tunnel and fab up some electric trains.

 

[arakboss]

Elon can dig a tunnel and fab up some electric trains.

seriously though, it's funny how laws like ORS 166.660 pretty well banned militias and now the lawmakers want to ban firearms because they think they were only for militias. If I was the conspiracist type I would think this was all part of their long game?

 

[DuneHopper]

It's pretty easy when it self preservation. The fact of the matter is that Oregon is lost. We will not out vote the antigunners.
Those that stay have 2 options. Comply, or not comply. If you comply, then you are abetting the anti gunners. If you choose to not comply, if/when you are caught you will be treated like the criminal you have become. And even if you are in the not comply camp, by you staying you are supporting the regime through your tax dollars.
I hate to go to this analogy but all the smart Jews left Germany when they saw what was coming. Staying behind to help your neighbors didn't help or change anything. Or like those people that stay behind during an impending natural disaster. All the warning signs are here, if you choose to ride out the storm you cannot blame your neighbors for leaving and not leaving you with any support.
This is not jumping ship as much as it is consolidating forces. If everyone that values freedom moved to states that also value freedom, you bolster the defenses against attacks there.

So where does move when all freedom is gone that is my point as well.
The left is making leaps and bounds they are now poised to do their bidding it took 20-30 years
but now it wont matter where one moved, eventually one will have to stand and fight.
I still see it as jumping ship, something I wont do. So the reality is not everyone is jumping ship,
and my point in the ones staying are doing so, because its what patriots do.

WWII, is indeed a great example. The Jews had a time where they could have done something, they had the numbers and influence and they trusted the wrong people. But France, Italy all jumped ship and what happened? If one flees a county they are fighting for, they are done fighting.
I see the points you are trying to make, but they have no bearing on the 2nd Amendment, and surely do not represent ant past activity by the drafters of said document. Had our forefathers did as you suggest , we would be having Tea about this time. You can't run and succeed on the battle field. Do you know why the USA has a policy to not deal with Terrorist, because once you do, you are done ever having future negotiations.
There will be no regroup, no fan fair..........I know some may not agree but I wont run from a fight regardless of the odds. I couldn't actually sleep at night tucking tail, and leaving all my brothers and sisters who are standing with us in Oregon and Washington. Oh well. People gonna do what ever they want, and I guess be damned freedom.

Our Forefathers would be so proud they spilled blood for us. as we are not worthy
of their honorable ways.

 

[arakboss]

So where does move when all freedom is gone that is my point as well.
The left is making leaps and bounds they are now poised to do their bidding it took 20-30 years
but now it wont matter where one moved, eventually one will have to stand and fight.
I still see it as jumping ship, something I wont do. So the reality is not everyone is jumping ship,
and my point in the ones staying are doing so, because its what patriots do.

WWII, is indeed a great example. The Jews had a time where they could have done something, they had the numbers and influence and they trusted the wrong people. But France, Italy all jumped ship and what happened? If one flees a county they are fighting for, they are done fighting.
I see the points you are trying to make, but they have no bearing on the 2nd Amendment, and surely do not represent ant past activity by the drafters of said document. Had our forefathers did as you suggest , we would be having Tea about this time. You can't run and succeed on the battle field. Do you know why the USA has a policy to not deal with Terrorist, because once you do, you are done ever having future negotiations.
There will be no regroup, no fan fair..........I know some may not agree but I wont run from a fight regardless of the odds. I couldn't actually sleep at night tucking tail, and leaving all my brothers and sisters who are standing with us in Oregon and Washington. Oh well. People gonna do what ever they want, and I guess be damned freedom.

Our Forefathers would be so proud they spilled blood for us. as we are not worthy
of their honorable ways.

I think Trump is going to divert from terrorist policy and negotiate with Taliban (terrorist in my book). Hope that doesn't cause any problems.

 

[wired]

Do you know why the USA has a policy to not deal with Terrorist, because once you do, you are done ever having future negotiations.

The US has been very consistent about being very inconsistent with that "stated policy".

 

[shibbershabber]

So where does move when all freedom is gone that is my point as well.
The left is making leaps and bounds they are now poised to do their bidding it took 20-30 years
but now it wont matter where one moved, eventually one will have to stand and fight.
I still see it as jumping ship, something I wont do. So the reality is not everyone is jumping ship,
and my point in the ones staying are doing so, because its what patriots do.

WWII, is indeed a great example. The Jews had a time where they could have done something, they had the numbers and influence and they trusted the wrong people. But France, Italy all jumped ship and what happened? If one flees a county they are fighting for, they are done fighting.
I see the points you are trying to make, but they have no bearing on the 2nd Amendment, and surely do not represent ant past activity by the drafters of said document. Had our forefathers did as you suggest , we would be having Tea about this time. You can't run and succeed on the battle field. Do you know why the USA has a policy to not deal with Terrorist, because once you do, you are done ever having future negotiations.
There will be no regroup, no fan fair..........I know some may not agree but I wont run from a fight regardless of the odds. I couldn't actually sleep at night tucking tail, and leaving all my brothers and sisters who are standing with us in Oregon and Washington. Oh well. People gonna do what ever they want, and I guess be damned freedom.

Our Forefathers would be so proud they spilled blood for us. as we are not worthy
of their honorable ways.

You both make good points.

The problem is ultimately this..... You talk about fighting for country and not running away on the battlefield...

There is no fight to be fought or a battlefield to show up on. Maybe metaphorically... but the results are not the same.

If things came down to an actual fight and it was kill or be killed... fighting for the soul of the nation, then it would be a different story. But thats not the case here. We are like a 4 year old wanting a pony. We can bubblegum and whine about it all day long but we arent getting the pony. All we have left is to walk, hat in hand, to the legislature and ask "Please sir, may I have my rifles"...
Like David saying to Goliath, "cant we just work this out?"

Thats where we are. This fight in no way goes kinetic either... depsite the keyboard bluster of some. The people who oppose us have the entirety of media and entertainment on their side, the entirety of social media/big tech, the police, swat teams and the national guard...
What fight are you fighting?

Sure, those of us who cannot leave have to do something....

But if you can go... do it. Though if you choose to leave, do not breathe a sigh of relief... Youve only reached a checkpoint and time is still running out.
The left is coming for you... Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, etc. Make no mistake. You may escape the impending doom of OR/WA but the fight continues. You will have to be active in every corner. Make a point to contact your elected people, your sheriff, your governor, etc... go to any hearings... contact the local Republican party and bug them about being PROACTIVE on the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Hop Sing]

This is a wild hypothetical: could gun owners all move to a friendly red state that has enough resources to exist on its own (Texas, for example) and then have that state secede from the Union? I use Texas, as secession has been associated with them on and off for years, and they also are diverse as far as natural resources, ports, airports, high tech, etc.

 

[bikemutt]

Were it not for the Initiative to the People being used to override our representative democracy form of government I'd be far less inclined to consider bailing out of WA. We can all go out there and fight for the person we want to see elected, maybe contribute some money, all the usual stuff. If we get someone elected and they let us down, there's always the next election to replace them.

Initiatives throw a serious wrinkle into the mix. And, it's a two-edged sword. Anyone here remember the $30 car tab initiative? That was a nice one, car tabs in WA were off the charts with no end in sight so we reeled them back in. Now we see the other edge of the sword; not so nice this time around.

I really don't know what to make of it. What I do know is a group of billionaires up north together with a team of the best lawyers money can buy will get their way, sooner or later. The only way I see to fight that is to outspend them; yeah, that's gonna happen

 

[bbbass]

This is a wild hypothetical: could gun owners all move to a friendly red state that has enough resources to exist on its own (Texas, for example) and then have that state secede from the Union? I use Texas, as secession has been associated with them on and off for years, and they also are diverse as far as natural resources, ports, airports, high tech, etc.

We fought the most bloody war ever over secession... not going to happen. Besides, Texas is being lost to a bloodless coup same as the rest of the states will be. You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile!!!

 

[shibbershabber]

Were it not for the Initiative to the People being used to override our representative democracy form of government I'd be far less inclined to consider bailing out of WA. We can all go out there and fight for the person we want to see elected, maybe contribute some money, all the usual stuff. If we get someone elected and they let us down, there's always the next election to replace them.

Initiatives throw a serious wrinkle into the mix. And, it's a two-edged sword. Anyone here remember the $30 car tab initiative? That was a nice one, car tabs in WA were off the charts with no end in sight so we reeled them back in. Now we see the other edge of the sword; not so nice this time around.

I really don't know what to make of it. What I do know is a group of billionaires up north together with a team of the best lawyers money can buy will get their way, sooner or later. The only way I see to fight that is to outspend them; yeah, that's gonna happen

Initiatives can be overruled cant they? I mean, not that it will happen in a 2nd Amendment case

But didnt Oregon voters reject same sex marriage a while back only to have the state say too bad and make it legal anyway?

 

[xtratoy]

Don't expect to send any message besides "you win" by moving. The antis will be thrilled to see you go. No they won't miss your tax dollars and other contributions you made to the State. They'll have plenty of antis moving in to fill your spot.

Staying and following the "We will not comply" movement, maybe moving to a SOPA county will be more bothersome to them. Of course you'll risk going to jail so you'll have to consider that.

SOPA..... stop online piracy act..... ????????

 

[PNWguy]

Arizona is a no go for me...1. too hot there. 2. They import most of there water from a river that's slowly drying up...

I lived in Arizona for several years in the Prescott area and it drove me nuts to hear people assume that the whole state is a big desert.
It's as varied as Washington in climate and topography.
Seriously.
It's like people thinking all of Washington is rainy and dreary like Seattle.

 

[bikemutt]

Initiatives can be overruled cant they? I mean, not that it will happen in a 2nd Amendment case

But didnt Oregon voters reject same sex marriage a while back only to have the state say too bad and make it legal anyway?

Below is what I found.

"In Washington, no initiated statute may be amended or repealed for two years without a two-thirds (66.67 percent) supermajority vote in both chambers. Any initiated law, so amended, is not subject to veto referendum. After two years, the law may be repealed or amended by a simple majority vote of the legislature"

 

[PNWguy]

This was my house in Arizona one morning...



This was my favorite fishing lake...



This is Prescott, AZ in the winter...


Please, if you're going to disparage Arizona, please educate yourself and rant about the real threat of Californians and other libs from the Northeast moving there and not incorrectly state that the entire state is a dry, hot desert.

 

[bbbass]

I lived in Arizona for several years in the Prescott area and it drove me nuts to hear people assume that the whole state is a big desert.
It's as varied as Washington in climate and topography.
Seriously.
It's like people thinking all of Washington is rainy and dreary like Seattle.

Ouch, yeah. I've been in Flagstaff many times when there was a foot of snow on the ground. And also the NE side in Pinetop.

Prescott, I read it was cowboy central for handgun lovers... open carry galore. Then I read about how it is changing.

Edit: BTW, I love the Sonora desert!!! Can't be there when it is 127F like in the days of my youth.

 

[bikemutt]

This was my house in Arizona one morning...
Please, if you're going to disparage Arizona, please educate yourself and rant about the real threat of Californians and other libs from the Northeast moving there and not incorrectly state that the entire state is a dry, hot desert.

PNWGuy, I don't sense any disparagement of AZ here; and you are correct that the state of AZ isn't monolithic by any standard. The reality is, as misguided as it may be, if you ask the average Josephine if she'll need a winter coat for an AZ trip, chances are the answer will be a resounding NO!

AZ is high on my list of places to consider moving to, my chief concern is the state's dependence on water from the Colorado river, a resource that's considered over-subscribed at best, for now.

Can you tell us more about that?

 

[bbbass]

PNWGuy, I don't sense any disparagement of AZ here; and you are correct that the state of AZ isn't monolithic by any standard. The reality is, as misguided as it may be, if you ask the average Josephine if she'll need a winter coat for an AZ trip, chances are the answer will be a resounding NO!

AZ is high on my list of places to consider moving to, my chief concern is the state's dependence on water from the Colorado river, a resource that's considered over-subscribed at best, for now.

Can you tell us more about that?

When I used to snowbird in Quartzsite, I would be in a tshirt and shorts, locals would be in long pants and down coats. LOL

 

[DuneHopper]

The US has been very consistent about being very inconsistent with that "stated policy".

This has to be the most, taken out of context post I have seen this year so far.
The reference was referring to a condition of action, I also said not to retreat and yes we have done that
many many times in a Militarizes history.

To Digress to the OP question.
No, it is not time to leave. My God people its been 7 years of straight up hits and people are willing to just toss it aside and leave? To those that want to leave, bottom line you are only avoiding the inevitable. Where you move to you will still be hunted down for wanting to have gun rights and your voice will not matter.

Now, all you wanting to leave, read up. Anti gunners succeed by smoke and mirrors, many here tried to warn others. a Member here T who was booted warned everyone ten years ago on here and he was laughed at. Everything he said came true. So if we/you all didnt listen before how are you gonna get safe places like Idaho etc to even listening to the sky is falling, as it all looks good to them, yes and 7 years ago things were not bad here either. People need to WTFU, running will not convince a new home to listen to some newbie that moved there. You move, your done.. until they come for your guns. I pray I am wrong as hell. But history shows otherwise.

 

[wired]

I dont agree at all. There are some parts of the country that gun rights are facing an uphill losing battle. The entire west coast and most of the Northeast are gone are going to go down if they havent already. I dont think Washington stands a chance of not severely restricting mags or the dreaded ASSAULT RIFLE within the next ten years. Oregon maybe even sooner. BUT there are entire parts of the country where none of that B-gum is going to fly like the entire southeast of the country. You think Alabama is ever going to ban any category of guns? Please. This state is run by one city and the whims of that city determine the fate of the entire state. Its inevitable.