Throat shot out?

[CLT65]

For an old sporterized 1917 Enfield, depending on bullet profile 1/4" freebore doesn't sound that bad to me. I was curious so I just tried the same thing with one of my USGI 30-06 rifles.

I don't have a 1917 Enfield so I tried it with my CMP service grade M1 Garand. It has an excellent bore and throat. I made up an empty case with a neck with light tension on a cannelured hunting bullet. Here's a photo:



Being an old, sporterized military arm, it really could be anything. I would suspect things like loose stock/bad stock bedding, loose scope mounts, bad crown, bore condition, all in about that order.

One thing I found a long time ago: on a rifle like that, paying a gunsmith to put a new barrel on it will usually cost you more than the gun is worth. Hopefully it's something simple. If you're handy there's a lot of things you can learn to fix yourself. Good luck with it!

Added: sorry, mixed up the photo somehow. Got it right now.

 

[solv3nt]

It sounds like your rifle is defective, you should just give it to me

 

[orygun]

A chamber cast is in order! Until then it is all speculation.

Yes, except nobody has talked about what the fired case looks like. My Kimber would take bullets seated quite a bit longer than the mag would allow (which was already longer than factory ammo), but shot the ones that fit in the mag very well. Weatherbys always have a bunch of freebore and shoot well. A long jump to the lands lowers initial pressures, which can be capitalized on to increase powder charges, leading to higher velocities. In cases like this accuracy also often increases with velocity.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Dear rifle gurus: I picked up a .30-06 and can't keep a decent group (2 different weights tested: 150 & 180gn.). Muzzle is tight with no damage I can see, good rifling. I pulled a bullet and set it into the shell neck loosely, then closed the bolt to see where it would push back to hopefully telling me where it contacts the rifling. It came back out a good quarter-inch longer than an unfired round. Normal bullet seated at the cannelure, test round 1/4" longer. Seems the bullet has a long jump before it hits the rifling.
Is my chamber shot and is there hope?

If it has Linda Lovelace syndrome, try using some TTSX bullets. They like a lot of jump. You may get some good accuracy from these bullets. Good luck with it. By the way, how's the rest of the rifle? Is it properly glass bedded, are you using a "proven" scope, did you use loctite on the base screws and properly torque everything down? Magbox isn't binding, front base screw not making contact with the threads on the barrel, locking lugs making full contact? There's a whole lot that goes into the workings of a fine tuned highly accurized system.

 

[asbtg]

For an old sporterized 1917 Enfield, depending on bullet profile 1/4" freebore doesn't sound that bad to me. I was curious so I just tried the same thing with one of my USGI 30-06 rifles.

I don't have a 1917 Enfield so I tried it with my CMP service grade M1 Garand. It has an excellent bore and throat. I made up an empty case with a neck with light tension on a cannelured hunting bullet. Here's a photo:

View attachment 505676

Being an old, sporterized military arm, it really could be anything. I would suspect things like loose stock/bad stock bedding, loose scope mounts, bad crown, bore condition, all in about that order.

One thing I found a long time ago: on a rifle like that, paying a gunsmith to put a new barrel on it will usually cost you more than the gun is worth. Hopefully it's something simple. If you're handy there's a lot of things you can learn to fix yourself. Good luck with it!

Added: sorry, mixed up the photo somehow. Got it right now.

Wow-- that's almost exactly what the one I tested looks like! I'm going to unscrew everything I can find, re-set and -torque it all and have someone look at the general condition. Probably re-crown just in case. I'm encouraged by your pic; I just want to hit a pop can at 100 yards and I'll be happy.

 

[asbtg]

Earlier he said he can do 1.5 MOA with a lever action. I'm assuming that's a 30-30, which has plenty of recoil. So I doubt it's his shooting skill.

45 Colt, actually, though hot-loaded to "I'm concerned" levels...

 

[asbtg]

Yes, except nobody has talked about what the fired case looks like. My Kimber would take bullets seated quite a bit longer than the mag would allow (which was already longer than factory ammo), but shot the ones that fit in the mag very well. Weatherbys always have a bunch of freebore and shoot well. A long jump to the lands lowers initial pressures, which can be capitalized on to increase powder charges, leading to higher velocities. In cases like this accuracy also often increases with velocity.

Reaaaaaaally? I do like to experiment, as my 45 Colt lever will attest to...

 

[Phantom Man]

Start with slugging the barrel...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Wow; I have so much to learn! I'm a pistol guy but new-ish to rifles. It sounds like taking it to a 'Smith for an inspection is a good start, particularly as it's used and a "sporterized" milsurp 1917 Enfield. I'm not expecting laser accuracy but I was benching 6-8" groups at 100yds with no appreciable wind. If a little work can get that into the 9/10 rings consistently I'll be happy. Any recommendations for a good rifle Smith around Everett? (Haven't updated my profile yet...)

Pics of this m1917 man. Also, how's it bedded? What kind of scope mounts? Everything loctited? What scope? Is it a "proven" scope? Details man, details and pics please...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Ok.....having recently bought some surplus Mauser rifles re-chambered in .30-06......well, I don't get 1" groups at 100 yards.

Course, I'm shooting military HXP FMJ 150 grain flat based bullets made in the the late 1970s. And, I'm using a 3-9 40mm Leupold scope set at 9x.

So then......even with an orange of about 2.5" pasted ontop of a black bull of about 6"......well, if I can keep them all on the orange, I'm happy. But, military trigger and all......maybe some shots will escape into the black. LOL. And, that is off a bench with sandbags. Mind you that, I just had my eyes checked. But, the target isn't exactly clear for me and my 60 year old eyes.

OK, Ok, ok......you suspect a worn throat. Get a cast done. If you're still not happy......maybe it's time to re-barrel?

Good Luck......and don't be too hard on yourself. I love military surplus rifles. But, I don't expect too much from them. That's me.

Aloha, Mark

I am different. I expect sub moa (3 shot groups) from my sporterized military rifles (in the spirit of m1917's). I'm working on one right now that I will guarantee It will shoot that well, when I'm done with it. Started on the stock today. It will get the usual treatment of glass bedding, freefloating the barrel and trigger work. Installed the Timney the other day as a matter of fact. Lined up and glass bed the scope bases yesterday. My other one (I had out hunting today) shoots like this on a regular basis:

Day in day out it shoots like this and so will the one I was working on today:


Given a little help, I'm sure the op's would be shooting great as well..

 

[tac]

I know I'm coming a litle late to this party, but I'd just like to offer my 2c. Like most older milsurp rifles of the era, throats were deliberately made extra long to accommodate the vagaries of wartime ammunition manufacture. A friend has a P14 with a beautiful barrel that only begins to show signs of a leade about 3/4" further than the longest bullet tip - on a 200gr bullet. It shot well enough for his father to get him 'chaired' at Bisley in 1956 at the Queen's Cup competition. Most Swedish m/96 Carl Gustafs of my experience also have long throats, deliberately, including my own immaculate m/96 of 1898 date.

 

[ma96782]

bsa1917hunter made an excellent point about spending money and increased expectations for better results.

Aloha, Mark

 

[bsa1917hunter]

bsa1917hunter made an excellent point about spending money and increased expectations for better results.

Aloha, Mark

Sometimes it's not about spending more money, but putting just a little time into it.

 

[ma96782]

Then, there is that thing about taking on someone else's project that might have been "Bubbaed." Maybe, that is the reason why the other owner sold it?

Example (YES, it's happened to me) :
A Mauser magazine that hasn't even been lengthened for .30-06 cartridges though it's got a .30-06 barrel mounted on it.
Scopes bases that are incorrect for the application.
Etc, etc, etc.....

But whatever.....enjoy your hobby. And we haven't even touched on the subject of reloading.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Mikej]

When thrown up for fodder on a forum, us coyotes dive in like it's the last scrap of meat we have seen in awhile. All intentions are good for sure. I think you have enough direction and I like your chances to resolve the issue, as you seem like a bright guy with resolve.

This here ^^ is one of the best things about this forum! ALL kinds of good info are in threads like this.

 

[asbtg]

This here ^^ is one of the best things about this forum! ALL kinds of good info are in threads like this.

This is what I love about this forum in particular-- I'm not afraid to reach out to this amazing community of people who have likely forgotten more than I'll ever learn about any firearm and yet are kind enough to share without being condescending. I have a lot of work to do on this puppy but that's the fun isn't it? NO ON 1639!

 

[tac]

Hey, we're just a bunch of ordinary guys who love guns, right? Nothing amazing about me, unless you count my 'amazingly' low heart rate.

 

[Medic!]

I have seen sub 1'' guns open up to 4''+ guns over time just from copper fouling.
You never know how the last guy cleaned it?

Some scrubbing with a strong copper solvent is cheep, easy, and could be a real help.
And you will see copper pour out if that's a contributing problem.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Great informative posts guys. The OP could enlighten us with a few pics of the rifle. I'd still like for him to answer some of my questions, as well. I've been shooting and working on m1917's (in particular), since I was 12 years old. Adjusted my first Timney on one when I was that age anyhow... Even though these are "mil surplus" rifles, they were/are quite accurate, when given the appropriate attention..

 

[osprey]

I have seen sub 1'' guns open up to 4''+ guns over time just from copper fouling.
You never know how the last guy cleaned it?

Some scrubbing with a strong copper solvent is cheep, easy, and could be a real help.
And you will see copper pour out if that's a contributing problem.

Bore tech copper solvent, making rifles shoot great again! I have brought back many a rifle for friends that was thought to be "shot out", found only to be severly copper fouled. Just yesterday I set a friend up with the supplies to get a new to him Sako rid of the copper that I am sure is standing in the way of great accuracy. Of course many other maladies came with some of these rifles as well. Like cheap misaligned scope mounting systems, loose scope mounts, random tight spots in barrel channel, sling stud screws too long and contacting barrel, and various other detractors of accuracy. I take these on as a personal challenge and find it quite rewarding to get them shooting correctly. I also tend to think Tac is correct about the longish throats of milsurp rifles. So reloading with proper bullet selection and seating depth should help immensely.