Three pistols out to 205 yards found out that's beyond pistol range 🤪

[OldBroad44]

I did some fun plinking at 100 or so yards with my model 14 s&w, 9" pie tin hanging from a tree. 148 grain fully seated wadcutters with gas checks. Once holdover was dialed in, hit almost every shot in about a three inch group.

The Combat Masterpiece .38 sp, one of the guns I grew up on.

Hmmmm. 3 inch or less groups at 100 yards? That would be 1.5 groups at 50 yards. I saw lots of Ransom Rest groups with different center-fire handgun cartridges and guns and ammo reported in gun magazines back in the 1970s through 90s. Generally the best Ransom Rest groups of production SWs, Colts, or Rugers from revolvers with barrels six inches or less were between 1.5 and 2 inches at 50 yards. That's just the variability of the guns. From what I could tell, the best I saw when shooters tested the guns hand held added at an additional 1 to 2 inches to bench rest, open sights groups, bring the fifty yard total to 2.5 to 3" groups at 50 yards and 5 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. However, good shooters with scoped handguns shooting from bench rest could do almost as well as Ransom Rest.
So I'm wondering....

Is yours an unusually precise model 14? What is the barrel length? Is the gun scoped? Are you a champion type hand gunner? Was the hundred yards measured or paced or guessed? Did you measure or guesstimate the group size? Were you shooting from bench rest or what position? Did you develop the load for this gun? Are you a fisherman? (If so I figure in an FFF-- Fisherman's Fibbing Factor of 2X on everything. Meaning the distance might have been as short as fifty yards and the group size might have been up to six inches. )

 

[coop44]

The Combat Masterpiece .38 sp, one of the guns I grew up on.

Hmmmm. 3 inch or less groups at 100 yards? That would be 1.5 groups at 50 yards. I saw lots of Ransom Rest groups with different center-fire handgun cartridges and guns and ammo reported in gun magazines back in the 1970s through 90s. Generally the best Ransom Rest groups of production SWs, Colts, or Rugers from revolvers with barrels six inches or less were between 1.5 and 2 inches at 50 yards. That's just the variability of the guns. From what I could tell, the best I saw when shooters tested the guns hand held added at an additional 1 to 2 inches to bench rest, open sights groups, bring the fifty yard total to 2.5 to 3" groups at 50 yards and 5 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. However, good shooters with scoped handguns shooting from bench rest could do almost as well as Ransom Rest.
So I'm wondering....

Is yours an unusually precise model 14? What is the barrel length? Is the gun scoped? Are you a champion type hand gunner? Was the hundred yards measured or paced or guessed? Did you measure or guesstimate the group size? Were you shooting from bench rest or what position? Did you develop the load for this gun? Are you a fisherman? (If so I figure in a FFF-- Fisherman's Fibbing Factor of 2X on everything. Meaning the distance might have been as short as fifty yards and the group size might have been up to six inches. )

Okay, maybe I exaggerated maybe a teeny tiny bit. I was a fisherman in a past life. But it was a fine example model 14, late 60's production, six inch barrel, .500 target hammer, trigger and factory target grips. Sadly it was stolen. But I did hit the pie tin much more often than not.

 

[OldBroad44]

Okay, maybe I exaggerated maybe a teeny tiny bit. I was a fisherman in a past life. But it was a fine example model 14, late 60's production, six inch barrel, .500 target hammer, trigger and factory target grips. Sadly it was stolen. But I did hit the pie tin much more often than not.

Its a shame your model 14 was stolen. Especially since it was a 6". It would have been interesting to repeat your long distance test more rigorously and get real numbers. I'm actually suspicious that some of the older guns might have been more precise than anything manufactured in the last fifty years. But I'm thinking really older guns. I don't doubt you were hitting the 9" plate most of the time, though. Those Combat Masterpieces were excellent guns. And sounds like you can do your part too.
Carol

 

[coop44]

Model 14 is the "target masterpiece", model 15 is the "combat masterpiece", model 14's were standard with 6" barrels ( not tapered like the model 15) at the time, there were some made with 8 3/8" barrels later, in the 80's or 90's iirc.

 

[The Heretic]

It is for a pistol designed only for self defense. But I hear ya, its just that... Sagia308 himself who does this didnt even hit his target not once. How practical is it to defend yourself with a self defense pistol at ranges greatly exceeding its design intent?

If you had hits coming in that close, would you be ducking? Would the near hits slow your rate of fire? If you had cover, but no way to evade incoming fire by moving away would you return fire? I would, I just might get lucky and at least I would maybe make them think about moving on rather than be hit by me getting lucky.

 

[OldBroad44]

Model 14 is the "target masterpiece", model 15 is the "combat masterpiece", model 14's were standard with 6" barrels ( not tapered like the model 15) at the time, there were some made with 8 3/8" barrels later, in the 80's or 90's iirc.

Thanks for the clarification. The Combat Masterpiece I learned on was my dads service handgun, and dated back to WWII. That might have been before SW started using model numbers. (USAF cared more about downed pilots being able to hunt with their handguns rather than stand off an army.) It had just a four inch barrel, not tapered, with the wide hammer. At least that's how I remember it. But the last I shot it was about 55 years ago.

 

[RVTECH]

Its a shame your model 14 was stolen.

Man I'll say! It sucks to hear of anyone getting any guns stolen - especially something nice and classic as a a Mod 14.

For the last few years been looking for a 6" S & W to add to the collection and a couple of Mod 14s crossed my path but I guess I wasn't as committed as I though. I have shot a couple and they are very nice and seem to be much better fitted than some other models.

Decided to concentrate on either a Mod 27 or 28.

I'm actually suspicious that some of the older guns might have been more precise than anything manufactured in the last fifty years.

I have often thought this myself and I believe there is some 'substance' to it. Most of the 'earlier S & Ws I have held and shot have all been pretty nice in fit and finish yet some of the new ones I have looked at aren't even close. Heck my dads WW2 era 'Victory' model (while typical of military era finish) has an incredibly smooth and crisp action. Even my 70s era Mod 66 & 60 are beautiful.

 

[RVTECH]

That might have been before SW started using model numbers.

It was - they started using Mod #s in 1957.

The Combat Masterpiece I learned on was my dads service handgun, and dated back to WWII.

It's possible your dads S & W is a Victory model as well as the Combat Masterpiece wasn't introduced until 1949. Did it look like this?

 

[coop44]

RV, you might want to check out the model 24 and 624, excellent 44 special revolvers for target work.

 

[OldBroad44]

It was - they started using Mod #s in 1957.


It's possible your dads S & W is a Victory model as well as the Combat Masterpiece wasn't introduced until 1949. Did it look like this?

View attachment 994063

No. It had a heavier non tapered barrel. And adjustable back sights and a ramp front sight. And a bigger grip. One reason I liked the gun so much is the sights were big and easy to see. I seem to be pretty sure that it had Masterpiece in the name. Its possible that it was a special run for the Air Force.

The other handgun I learned on as a kiddie was a Colt Woodsman Target. But it had a thinner front sight that was harder for me to see.

 

[RVTECH]

RV, you might want to check out the model 24 and 624, excellent 44 special revolvers for target work.

I am sure they are but its more the caliber and not the gun.

I don't really want to get into a 'new' caliber and have to get dies, components etc. to start shooting it.

I might consider it if I stumbled onto a gun I really had to have (like a mod 64 Winchester in .25-35) but with revolvers I'll be staying with .38/.357.

 

[DizzyJ]

205 yards is less than the standard range for IHMSA

View attachment 993366

Was going to mention this as well. 200 meters (218 yards) is done over and over again during silhouette matches.

 

[Member 38805]

Long range pistol shooting is a hoot! It takes a bit to zero in at long range targets, and for me I don't really use the sights on the target, but instead I choose a object above and behind the target to sight in on. Once I get close to the target, I can then adjust my point of aim to an object above the target, and get fairly consistent hits this way.
At our annual long range rifle shoots a few of us play with shooting our handguns at 450 yds. at the dingers, and have gotten pretty good at hitting consistently. I've used my .45 colt, .45 ACP, 9mm, and .38 Spl., all at 450 yds. It's challenging, but puts a big smile on your face when you start making hits!