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Interesting, no NFA weapons are legal to carry concealed. So a suppressor in the backpack is a no-go also.
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National Thoughts on Shockwave/Tac-14/et. al. legality, etc.
- Thread Starter The Heretic
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- #62
Not sure about that?
Maybe some NFA experts can share an opinion. I kind of doubt that a LEO would have a problem with that?
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As so often happens with this stuff people start to mix up State and Federal Law. For a permit to carry its a state thing. Every state seems to have a different idea of how this works. In WA ours is called a Concealed Pistol License. It states we can carry a pistol concealed loaded if we wish. To carry in a vehicle we can carry a loaded pistol. So an AR pistol is fine with the CPL. Some states have a concealed weapon permit. Last I heard TX as an example allowed several kinds of weapons to be carried with their permit. Have no idea if this is now or was ever true as don't live there. As far as I know WA has nothing stopping someone from carrying an NFA item they have a stamp for concealed as long as its a pistol.
Again its VERY risky to ask any kind of legal advice on the net and then follow what you are told.
When the Shockwave kind of things hit here WA never would give a real definition of how they were going to classify them. The AG has so far as I know still refused to make a clear statement on these. I am guessing he does not want to call them a pistol for just this reason. If he did we could carry one loaded anywhere we can carry a handgun with a permit.
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Thing is, which NFA item is a "handgun"?
Not an AOW I would think.
Not a SBR or SBS.
A select fire pistol fits.
Not an AOW I would think.
Not a SBR or SBS.
A select fire pistol fits.
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Have no idea, only thing I know for sure is I will not be the "test case". When some Co first found the "loop hole" in the law that allowed what later became the Shockwave there was a LOT of talk about these here. Then when the Feds let it go and Mossberg and then Rem started making them commercially again this came up here a lot. Then one of the big stores here said they were not a hand gun so no wait to buy. State then did step in and say no, had to wait as if it was a hand gun but, AG was still refusing to actually say they are a hand gun. So again lots of talk and some saying they were carrying here with their permit. I said great but, they were begging to be a test case. I was kind of interested in buying one of these but, if I did I was not going to make myself the test case.
Now as far as an auto pistol we can't have them in this state so it's moot to us. We can have other NFA stuff but sadly no full auto. I for a long time was not really interested in an AR pistol. That I could legally carry one loaded in my vehicles is what got me to finally try one. We have a lot of guns set up for a can. Wife keeps talking about getting the first one. I am fine with this. If we get some cans I would at this point not be leery of carrying a can on a pistol concealed. If I buy a Shockwave kind of shotgun I will not carry that loaded unless the AG actually puts it in writing that it is a hand gun here.
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- #66
IIRC, part of the definition of the "firearm" classification was that it was not concealable?
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Man, I'da bought one of those if I'd gotten the chance.
As it was, I ended up with these two:
Both are Remingtons, both 12-ga.
Top one is a regular ol' 870 pistol grip pump.
Bottom one is the 870 TAC-14 with the 6-rd box mag.
I had to get TAC-14 cuz I knew it would make Diane Feinswine fill her Size 58 bloomers...
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If you mean the "shockwave" things? Can't remember now what it was in the Federal law that someone found. I am sure it could be found again searching. I just remember the first time I saw the ad for the "kit" to turn a Cruiser shotgun into these I thought no way in hell could this fly. The Co making the kit had the law on their site and that was the "get around" that the Feds had kind of missed. At least I have to guess they did not intend this as it took a hell of a long time till someone tested the waters. In any case the Co was saying they strongly recommended that anyone who bought the kit from them and altered a Cruiser shotgun keep a copy of the paper work with the guns. Since they feared a lot of local police would just arrest anyone they found with one. I know I could see that happening. I first thought there was no way this thing is not an NFA item. Then when the Feds just decided not to fight it Mossberg figured they would jump in then others followed. Again though for carry it's a state law thing. From what I see it seems every state that has a CC law writes them differently. When we lost the ability to just buy a hand gun here and walk out with it one big chain advertised these shockwaves as something you could just buy and walk out. Like an AR lower or a long gun. AG did step in then and said no, wanted them treated like a hand gun but, stopped short of putting in writing that they are a hand gun. So for other states where someone has a CC permit? Who the hell knows. Sooner or later there is bound to be a "test case" or two on these things as someone will be found with one loaded in a vehicle or concealed. May be interesting to see how it shakes out. I just am not going to be the test case as I don't want to have to deal with the cost of taking on the state.
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From Mossberg:
Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon.
Part (all?) of that is the 26" length.
So even if the state law says you can conceal carry it, the ATF would interpret concealing it as changing its classification to an AOW. Or at least that is what everybody seems to be warning against.
Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon.
Part (all?) of that is the 26" length.
So even if the state law says you can conceal carry it, the ATF would interpret concealing it as changing its classification to an AOW. Or at least that is what everybody seems to be warning against.
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Judge Tosses Charges in NY Shockwave Case, Says It Falls Outside the Law
A Judge in New York tossed out charges against William Nolan, who faced up to 15 years in prison for possession of two Mossberg Shockwaves.
www.gunsamerica.com
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Well that one should have the hair on fire of a lot of law makers there. Since the State has basically unlimited funds to fight I would also have to wonder if they will try to get another judge to take their side now.Judge Tosses Charges in NY Shockwave Case, Says It Falls Outside the Law
A Judge in New York tossed out charges against William Nolan, who faced up to 15 years in prison for possession of two Mossberg Shockwaves.
I don't get that, what if I concealed my AR, is it now a AOW??? Or what if I conceal my hunting rifle with a 22" barrel , is it now a AOW.
The whole reason the Shock Wave was 26.25" was to avoid that I thought
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I have to "guess" this is the people who make these trying to cover their butt's. You have to remember this was not brought to market by Mossy at first. Some guys started looking at the law, came up with a "kit" to turn a Cruiser into what became the Shockwave. When they first did it a LOT of people were shocked to see it work, me included. So when it looked like the Fed's were not going to swat them down Mossy and then Rem jumped in. A LOT of law people do NOT like these things. Sooner or later one will get used in some high profile shooting and the heat will really get turned up.
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I just want to form 1 an SBS out of one.
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- #75
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I really wanted one until I heard about the tax stamp stuff. You probably have to get one for this too, but I thought it was a pretty awesome shockwave contender.
www.chiappafirearms.com
Product Details
www.chiappafirearms.com
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- #77
You don't need a tax stamp/etc. for the Shockwave/et. al. - yet.I really wanted one until I heard about the tax stamp stuff. You probably have to get one for this too, but I thought it was a pretty awesome shockwave contender.
View attachment 892387
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I would if we could in WA.
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The Shockwave is not a shotgun, or pistol, or AOW (or any form of NFA item). It is a "firearm".
www.mossberg.com
590® Shockwave - Others - Firearms O.F. Mossberg & Sons
www.mossberg.com
CLASSIFICATION OF THE 590 SHOCKWAVE
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives has confirmed the 590 Shockwave as a "firearm" per the Gun Control Act (GCA), but not a Class 3/NFA firearm.- Messages
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Going to get a bit silly here, but this is why I hate all these stupid laws they try to make:
So if I want to take this to the range I have to carry open-carry at all times? I can't put it in a rifle bag or anything else that conceals it from plain view, even just from car to range? You know most private ranges will insist it be in a case, so what then? What about the fact that I guarantee when I buy it new at a store it comes in a box, and they will probably insist I leave it in the box while carrying out of the store, thus instantly making it an A.O.W....
And this is why we can't have nice laws or legal interpretations.
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