Thoughts on "reman" vs. "reloaded"...

[daved20319]

So we've all heard the warnings to never shoot someone else's reloads, yet many are quite happy to get "remanufactured" ammo at a (slight) discount over major brands from some guy with a company name and a Dillon ammo plant. So the thought that occurs to me is, what's the difference? I've seen plenty of posts about QC issue with some of the reman ammo, yet guys are still buying it. I gotta say, I trust MY ammo more than any other source, I know my attention to detail is very high, and since I prefer loading on a single stage press, each cartridge is hands/eyes on multiple times during the process. Now I know that not everyone is as meticulous as I am, but apparently neither are the reman guys. And I've gotten some pretty lousy big name ammo from time to time, too. Seems to me like there's a disconnect here somewhere, what do ya'll think? Later.

Dave

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[41mag]

Seems to me like there's a disconnect here somewhere, what do ya'll think?

Something of a disconnect for me as well. I've come to believe the 'legal' difference is one of liability insurance. I've known several small time shops over the years that went from 'individual hobbyist' to 'big profiteer as ammo producer'. Ultimately these folks all failed commercially due to eventual realization the costs of doing legal mfg were way more than anticipated.

Several of them actually started with great quality ammo for a good price. One local grew ever larger & more extensive crew & equipment while still striving to maintain high quality for low price. After a couple years the internal conflicts between theory and practice became obvious. The last couple lots I bought from them were out of spec erratic & below standard.

My current working definition is "reloads" are something the individual does for his own use, while "reman" is something a larger processor does with non-new cases, to sell to a larger market than personal use. Maybe that's accurate or not, works for me.

 

[oremike]

I can only speak for me. I'm a single man shop and classed as a manufacture by the ATF. My goal was and still is to make a quality product at a fair price. I've not raised my because I can nor have I tried to increase production by cutting corners. I have upgraded my equipment to be more efficient. For me the difference between manufacturing and re-manufacturing is whether I use new brass or used. The loads stay the same either way. That brings me to the main difference I see between a (re)manufacture and a re-loader. A re-loader can assemble the componates and make ammo. As a manufacturer I play more of the long game meaning the ammo you buy from me today is the same ammo you'l get in a week, month or year.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Reloaded vs. Remanufactured is a distinction without a difference

 

[1911coltguy]

I can only speak for me. I'm a single man shop and classed as a manufacture by the ATF. My goal was and still is to make a quality product at a fair price. I've not raised my because I can nor have I tried to increase production by cutting corners. I have upgraded my equipment to be more efficient. For me the difference between manufacturing and re-manufacturing is whether I use new brass or used. The loads stay the same either way. That brings me to the main difference I see between a (re)manufacture and a re-loader. A re-loader can assemble the componates and make ammo. As a manufacturer I play more of the long game meaning the ammo you buy from me today is the same ammo you'l get in a week, month or year.

+1. Shooters who don't reload can save a little money buying remanufactured ammo from a licensed and trusted business as a very viable option. Personally, I haven't shot a factory handgun round (aside from 22lr) of any origin in over 15 years. Being retired if I didn't handload I would certainly seek out a cheaper option to keep sending rounds down range by any means possible.

 

[echo1]

I can only speak for me. I'm a single man shop and classed as a manufacture by the ATF. My goal was and still is to make a quality product at a fair price. I've not raised my because I can nor have I tried to increase production by cutting corners. I have upgraded my equipment to be more efficient. For me the difference between manufacturing and re-manufacturing is whether I use new brass or used. The loads stay the same either way. That brings me to the main difference I see between a (re)manufacture and a re-loader. A re-loader can assemble the componates and make ammo. As a manufacturer I play more of the long game meaning the ammo you buy from me today is the same ammo you'l get in a week, month or year.

Yes it is advisable not to use someone else's reloads. That being said, I have and do. The plinking ammo, mostly .38 comes/came from an older fella (deceased), was very inexpensive ($8 bucks/50) and inconsistent, but went bag every time. One of the LGS, has a commercial operation using new brass. I've picked up .41, .38, .357, .45, & 9MM from him, all great and some loaded to "match" specs ($35-$37/100). I've also picked up .22-250 dies and ammo from a fella getting out of the caliber. 800 rds. all in new brass ($200). Then I acquired 1000 rds of .45 from a competition shooter going to 9mm, sold as componets. I got a 1917 Colt 1911 from him as well ($150 ammo, $600 pistol). My next big score was 1K of .41mag from a dead guy's estate ($175 & dies). All of this ammo was labeled and had load data. PAX

 

[DizzyJ]

I would assume remanufactured is "generally" held to a higher standard.

 

[TTSX]

Probably the same difference as a remanufactured vs rebuilt engine.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Would you rather buy a sammich from someone with the proper bona-fides or just some schlub that can dip a spatula into a mayonnaise jar?

 

[Koda]

So we've all heard the warnings to never shoot someone else's reloads, yet many are quite happy to get "remanufactured" ammo at a (slight) discount over major brands from some guy with a company name and a Dillon ammo plant. So the thought that occurs to me is, what's the difference?

none.

it seems many people will trust a business name but a reload is a reload and commercial reloaders are a ticking time bomb. Theres just no way they can crank out millions of reloaded cases and catch every bad one.

9mm on the left, 45 on the right... both from the last time I bought commercial reloads.

 

[OutwardHound]

I bought a couple of boxes of local remanufactured 9mm target FMJ a few years ago. Shot one box. Gave me good practice on all kinds of malfunction drills. Fast forward to this past Wednesday. Times being what they are I finally shot the second box and not one malfunction in the box. Go figure.

 

[eb in oregon]

Would you rather buy a sammich from someone with the proper bona-fides or just some schlub that can dip a spatula into a mayonnaise jar?

So your saying it takes talent to make a "sammich"? Or simply attention to detail. Now tell us all you've never eaten a "sammich" that you didn't make yourself or buy from a store or restaurant.

 

[partsed]

But @Certaindeaf is no schulb....

 

[Certaindeaf]

So your saying it takes talent to make a "sammich"? Or simply attention to detail. Now tell us all you've never eaten a "sammich" that you didn't make yourself or buy from a store or restaurant.

If imna buy a gadang sammich, nevermind, it's apparently a bit too complicated for some.

 

[dangerranger60]

I think the OP should add a third category. Handloader, Remanufacture, and reloader.
If you work around a range for any length of time you will quickly be able to Identify each of them!
Your handloads well be boxed and marked with load information, they will be clean and neat in appearance. The only tip off that they may be reloaded are the head stamps and the packaging.
Your Remanufactured ammo will be packed in commercial boxes with a company logo, Bullet weight, and caliber designation. They should also be clean , well put together, and no manufacturing defects.

And then we get to the stuff that you should not be shooting if you don't know what goes into it. Its packed in old ammo boxes, plastic baggies, and ammo cans. It has dirty stained cases, miss matched primers, and obviously mismatched bullets. The labels [ if there is one [ will only say 9mm, or 38. It looks like outdoor range pickup brass that was just resized and reloaded.

I have been a handloader for around 40 years, I take a lot of pride in doing it right. In every step each piece of ammo or component is hand inspected. I trust my loads to be shot by my kids and grandkids. I am careful to package my ammo in a way that even 10 years later I can identify what went into this ammo. Thats what makes me a handloader, and not a reloader. DR

 

[eb in oregon]

I have been a handloader for around 40 years, I take a lot of pride in doing it right. In every step each piece of ammo or component is hand inspected. I trust my loads to be shot by my kids and grandkids. I am careful to package my ammo in a way that even 10 years later I can identify what went into this ammo. Thats what makes me a handloader, and not a reloader. DR

And I've been reloading for 46 years (up to 22 different calibers at present) and my product has gotten better year by year due to increased knowledge and learning from mistakes. I take exception to some of your thinking as I'll stack up my bright shiny cases made with strict attention to detail, each round inspected and wiped off, stored in ammo cans (due to quantity) or old cartridge boxes clearly labeled with caliber, powder charge, type of bullet and primer, and date of construction against every box of ammunition you possess. The container means nothing, it's whats' in it and how it was made that counts. However I've seen ammunition others have made and put in nice Midway plastic boxes that I wouldn't even pick up. The last centerfire factory ammunition I bought was a couple boxes of .25acp and that was over ten years ago as I reload that too.

 

[Capn Jack]

The only thing I have that I don't reload is rimfire and shotgun. All of my rounds go bang and in 60+ years, I've never had one go boom! I seldom buy jacketed bullets as I cast and weigh my own, even round balls for my BP firearms. I use a single stage press and I don't visit while I'm reloading, or casting. Those are my criteria and I would never hesitate to let someone shoot any of my reloads.

 

[2ndtimer]

My thoughts on "remanufactured" ammo: many years ago I did buy a few boxes of Hunting Shack ammo because it was cheap and went bang. More recently, I was at my club range when a guy approached me and was having issues getting some remanufactured .308 Win ammo to chamber in his rifle. I commented that it appeared to be a sizing issue and some of his fired cases also were showing high pressure. He offered me whatever was left over, if I wanted them. I said, sure, I'll take them home and pull the bullets and see if any can be salvaged. Over half of the cases were over maximum length, the powder charges varied by as much as 3 grains, and many of the cases needed additional sizing to fit a case gauge. The ammo had been purchased at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. My handloads worked fine, after re-processing all the brass, including sizing and trimming and charging the cases with consistent charges of a known powder. I don't think I have bought any remanufactured ammo since I got my RCBS Rockchucker press, and that was almost 40 years ago.

 

[lcb97269]

So we've all heard the warnings to never shoot someone else's reloads, yet many are quite happy to get "remanufactured" ammo at a (slight) discount over major brands from some guy with a company name and a Dillon ammo plant. So the thought that occurs to me is, what's the difference? I've seen plenty of posts about QC issue with some of the reman ammo, yet guys are still buying it. I gotta say, I trust MY ammo more than any other source, I know my attention to detail is very high, and since I prefer loading on a single stage press, each cartridge is hands/eyes on multiple times during the process. Now I know that not everyone is as meticulous as I am, but apparently neither are the reman guys. And I've gotten some pretty lousy big name ammo from time to time, too. Seems to me like there's a disconnect here somewhere, what do ya'll think? Later.

Dave

bubblegum happens.

 

[gmerkt]

In my mind, the basic difference between factory ammo and reman. ammo is the latter usually isn't loaded with new brass. But beyond that, there is the obvious subject of size of operation, quality control, etc. There are surely some smaller operations that load using new brass, don't call it reman. Such as Miwall in Calif., one of the "larger small" operations. Or the one in Montana, HSM Ammo, I'd call them a smaller but not inconsequential firm. But these might have reman. product lines as well.

I've known several small time shops over the years that went from 'individual hobbyist' to 'big profiteer as ammo producer'. Ultimately these folks all failed commercially due to eventual realization the costs of doing legal mfg were way more than anticipated.

Several of them actually started with great quality ammo for a good price. One local grew ever larger & more extensive crew & equipment while still striving to maintain high quality for low price. After a couple years the internal conflicts between theory and practice became obvious. The last couple lots I bought from them were out of spec erratic & below standard.

If the owner knows what he's doing, he'll do okay by himself for a while. His problems really start when he has to hire person number two to do some of the work for him. You can only be in so many places at one time and loading ammo is a precision operation. Balancing this need for precision against what can be paid for the labor is a problem. This is a critical phase of growing the business.

I used to visit a smaller ammo manufacturer from time to time. They were located in Anaheim or Santa Ana, Calif., I've forgotten which. This guy was in business for a several years, his product was available through third parties at gun shows. He was ambitious, tried to grow, made mistakes. One time I walked by some ammo that was on display, it was .30 US Carbine. I noticed that one cartridge had the primer seated backwards. I pointed this out, he stomped off, found a middle-aged Mexican woman and reamed her out for bad QC. I don't know if she primed the cases or inspected the product. But I don't imagine he was paying her all that much in any case. This same guy would buy fired brass from anyone, a bad practice if you ask me. He'd have no idea the condition of it. I'd think most people putting reman. ammo together would at least want to buy once-fired from the same known source.

I can only imagine the potential liability issues arising from commercial ammunition manufacturing at any level. The big companies, they have enough cushion to invoke legal counsel, pay court costs, judgements, etc.

That mega mass shooting in Las Vegas, wasn't it discovered that the shooter was using reman. ammo from an unlicensed, garage-type manufacturer? I think I read that the guy pled out. And he may face civil litigation.

One thing I've noticed in the past about ammo from smaller outfits. Is their name and address on the box? If not, why not?

These days I think a better business model may be (I don't want to mention the name, you'll think I'm plugging him) the guy who specializes in selling bullets and brass that are surplused off by companies that are owned by Vista Outdoor. He also has acquired bullet manufacturing equipment and he sells some of the stuff he makes himself. Selling these components instead of loaded ammo is much, much less risky than selling loaded ammo.

Over half of the cases were over maximum length,

A rookie mistake that is sometimes overlooked by hobbyists and small outfits trying to sell ammo. Yet you can find overlength cases on some unfired factory ammo. Not by great amounts.