Thoughts on Firearm Ownership

[tac]

Dear Andy and all - yes, we ARE the rational element of considered gun ownership - people who are forced by their own standards of decency and 'what is right' to give more than passing concern into the responsibilities of owning and carrying a gun.

Here in yUK, where we have to prove that we are fit people to own a gun of any kind, there is no group of people who are not trusted with the secrets of state who are 'looked into' by more people. As I mentioned, three people have to be convinced that you are one of the 'good guys' - four if you count the Firearms Enquiries Officer' who comes to your home and interviews you in order to see for himself that you are not the kind of person who would bribe three others just say what a bon oeuf you are, fit to have guns.

Right now, none that happens in the only country on earth where the RKBA wields its so-far unyielding promise, that the People have the G*d-given RIGHT to possess firearms as part of being human.

But it could all change, and that change could be brought about by your own government, led by a group of people intent on Constitutional change. Their rationale is not difficult to understand, and has resonance that has reached down the years to haunt you all.

Back in the early 1930's, the then newly-elected leader of a country went on national radio and said -'Now that dangerous firearms of all kinds have been taken away, and placed in the safe hands of our police and military, we have thereby ensured the safety and security of our great nation for all time!'

You might recognise it more readily if I print it out in the original language -

'Jetzt sind diese gefährlichen Feuerwaffen aller Arten weggenommen worden, und setzten in die sicheren Hände von unserer Polizei und unserem Militär, wir haben dadurch die Sicherheit und Garantie unserer großen Nation für alle Zeit sichergestellt!'

A. Hitler.

tac

PS - I have NO idea why some of my text has been struck through - perhaps somebody here can explanate it for me.

 

[tac]

@Stomper - you wrote - 'The way I see it, that approach makes it far too easy for "well connected elites" to breeze through, whereas for us "nobody's" if the club secretary doesn't "like your beard", or your "fashion sense", or if you're not "dating the chief constable's daughter" can deny (or severely delay) the "process".'

Trust me on this one, it really does NOT happen like that. The club secretary, and everybody else, has six months to decide whether or not you are suitable candidate to make the application. After the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres, the loner with an attitude is quickly assessed and told to go away. It has actually happened twice in my fifteen years in this club - once with one guy who was totally non-communicative, and we are all aware of the fact that shooting the breeze is as important a part of the shooting experience as shooting a gun, and once with a guy who put up the blackest black imaginable - turning around on the line with a loaded gun, and threatening to use it.

The first guy accepted the reasonable comment that he was not really cut out for ownership of a firearm, and the second guy got an instant and irrevocable ban from the club, which meant loss of his FAC and guns. His one-year prison sentence as a result of his criminal actions also ensured that he could never even apply for an FAC during his remaining lifetime.

tac

 

[oknow]

Here is one reason I like guns

<broken link removed>

 

[Brutus57]

I grew up middle class America. Dad was WWII vet, B-29 flight engineer and top turret gunner (four .50 cals) or others as the B-29 had several gun site blisters you could aim different guns from remotely. He hunted with a sporterized .30-40 Krag (which got him a deer year after year) then when he could afford it bought a .300 Win mag so he could hunt moose in Canada. We never really owned shot guns or pistols. My older brothers got .22s rifles growing up, then hunting rifles. I did too, a .22 bolt action on my 10th birthday after I had shown I could pass the the Hunter Safety course and handle a firearm safely. My "social club" was the Woodmen Rangers....out in the country we had no Boy or even Cub Scouts. As Rangers we learned camping, fishing, outdoor sports and at our Field Day we target shot .22s among other activities.
I said all that to say this...Unlike Europe I grew up a natural rifleman. I could shoot tin cans or paper plates or varmints when ever i wanted on our property. I am an OK marksman, could be much better with more practice. Many Americans, especially rural citizens grew up as shooters, hunters, "rifleman" etc. Europe is so far beyond that idea, if they ever even had it, which I do not think they did (perhaps in earlier)19th century since all of Europe isn't very big landwise and mass armies for war were raised from all over but in cities, mostly.

many other Americans have served generation after generation in several wars in the 20th and now 21st century as "rifleman"...the beat goes on....

For me and many American males firearms are just part of our lives. We know enough of our history and world history that we like our guns and plan to keep them. No matter who is elected.

Brutus Out

 

[Stomper]

Bloody Oath, Mate!!

 

[transittech]

My parents are anti-gun, so naturally I didn't grow up with guns or learn gun safety from my dad or grandpa. Most of what I know I have learned off the internet, which is ok, but its nothing like hands-on as a youngster. Now I have to figure out how to teach my son about gun safety. And how to shoot. Here in Portland, worrying about him going to school and bragging about it or saying something he shouldn't.

(We are doing cub scouts)

 

[Stomper]

My parents are anti-gun, so naturally I didn't grow up with guns or learn gun safety from my dad or grandpa. Most of what I know I have learned off the internet, which is ok, but its nothing like hands-on as a youngster. Now I have to figure out how to teach my son about gun safety. And how to shoot. Here in Portland, worrying about him going to school and bragging about it or saying something he shouldn't.

(We are doing cub scouts)

Just think through how you would have liked to been taught (responsibly, LOL) as a young lad and go from there, dad!

 

[Member 3687]

I had to think about this one for a bit because as I am one who feels it is a right and not a privilege meaning I do not need permission but I do also believe in training but not by or from the government as to me that is control.

I understand folks that want to know the history of firearms and many of us do but I do not feel it is a requirement. Because I have never been really interested in Black powder guns (and yes I own a couple) but have been building ARs from the early 80 when no one even really knew what they were and when carbines had 4 positions and aluminum stocks with carry handles (XM177 style). The mechanics are what interest me not hunting, shooting or sport although I have used all of them as an excuse to buy another gun.

I do not need to know the history of the car from the Stanly Steamer to Stutz Bearcat or how Ford made them affordable to want a Ford AC Cobra or supped up Honda and I do not feel it should be a requirement to drive. I have built hot rod cars and bikes more than once yet have never set in a Model A or cared to. Yet the car with all the license, insurance and safety equipment still kills more folks than guns and it is not a right it is a privilege.

I have no problem with laws being passed that if I do something bad with a gun like murder or armed robberies I should go to prison but to have to ask permission to exercise a right bugs me.

It says I am guilty until proven innocent rather than innocent until proven guilty the way the law was meant.

I agree with several post that state they would rather take chances with untrained folks exercising a right than giving up that right to government control because then it is no longer a right.

Working in the shop on weekends we always encouraged training to all customers and we kept business cards of a couple training companies or at least told them to do hunter safety as a start.

Many were first time owners and only about 5-10 percent if that would ever do formal training. Most would just go out with friends and learn bad habits but yet even with all of the record gun sales in the US to untrained folks the crime rates have gone down and there is not the blood running the streets like everyone says. But yet they say we need more laws to protect us from ourselves.

As far as the advertisement go like I said I am into the mechanics of the gun that is why I have so many ARs because I like to try new stuff to make them better, faster and more reliable. I have Magpul Bad Levers and Battle Arms ambidextrous safeties on most of my guns because they are faster in the matches I run and they work. I like BCM uppers when I buy completed because I have proven they work to my standards and they have the options I want. I have several scratch built as well from the ground up.

So I am a gadget whore and just like cars I want them with options like a tow package, a bigger motor and electric windows and I do not need to learn about a Model A to know this.

When I started in guns I learned from a friend when I was in the Navy and learned all the bad habits but over time I went to classes (rifle, Pistol and combined rifle and pistol), read books (before the internet) and even became a Hunters Ed instructor and I did it on my own not because it was mandatory.

My other issue is with set agendas like in some of the gun clubs talked about where you're evaluated for X amount of time or you meet their qualifications and then they make the determination about your future.

In my opinion it is a mild form of brain washing. We do it this way because we have always done this way to get the results we want. Sort of like most Americans still think machine guns are illegal because that is what they were told all these years.

I probably would have not make it past the first month and been kicked out as I like to be left alone I am strong willed and I am not a traditionalist because I like to think outside the box. I do not care about bull eye 5 rounds in the same whole (but I can do it) but more move and shoots.

I have nothing against traditional ways or training and mean no offense to anybody that does.

But unlike most countries we have a right in the bill of rights and that is the tradition I want to promote. The freedom to buy a gun without judgment or government control and only when I commit a crime like murder or armed robbery am I judged and not before.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thank you to all who have responded so far.
Just to be clear , I don't feel that a gun owner needs to know the history of firearms from A to Z.
Nor to I wish to say what firearms one must own.
Part of my enjoyment is learning about the history of a given gun.
As to what one should own , I feel that a free legal law abiding American should be able to own any firearm the military considers a "small arm" or any "sporting" firearm they desire.

A big part of what I miss about how I remember gun ownership in the past is not feeling like I'm the strange one for owning guns.
Not having co-workers saying "Oh you own guns, but you seem so nice " and then avoiding me or giving me the "hairy eye-ball" afterwards.
Experiences like that are part of the reason why I go out with my friends' and mine museum and show our collection.
We get a chance to show that we as gun owners are not bad guys or any of the stereotypes portrayed by the mainstream media.

Again thank you to all for reading my ramble and responding.
Andy

 

[H2O MAN]

I'm more worried about who's driving a vehicle on public roads than who owns a gun, or why they own them. Gun ownership has been stigmatized for political reasons, but motorized vehicle operation is responsible for far more carnage. I do feel safer when I see a gun sticker on a vehicle, because the operator is most likely more responsible than others.

 

[etrain16]

Thank you to all who have responded so far.
Just to be clear , I don't feel that a gun owner needs to know the history of firearms from A to Z.
Nor to I wish to say what firearms one must own.
Part of my enjoyment is learning about the history of a given gun.
As to what one should own , I feel that a free legal law abiding American should be able to own any firearm the military considers a "small arm" or any "sporting" firearm they desire.

A big part of what I miss about how I remember gun ownership in the past is not feeling like I'm the strange one for owning guns.
Not having co-workers saying "Oh you own guns, but you seem so nice " and then avoiding me or giving me the "hairy eye-ball" afterwards.
Experiences like that are part of the reason why I go out with my friends' and mine museum and show our collection.
We get a chance to show that we as gun owners are not bad guys or any of the stereotypes portrayed by the mainstream media.

Again thank you to all for reading my ramble and responding.
Andy

It definitely bugs me that I can't talk more openly about guns - it's a topic I enjoy, but the fear of guns in this country has warped so many people to believe that if you own guns, you're somehow dangerous. How the hell did 'they' get this message to sink in to so many people? Thankfully I do know quite a few people who are gun owners or at least aren't freaked out by the idea, and I have a few co-workers that really like guns too - it's nice to be in similar company.

 

[tac]

If anybody over here asks how I spend my time, I tell them 'trains and shooting', and usually get a 'that must be interesting' and they move on to another subject. I think it's true that although one interest is well understood, that the other is so far outside the usual remit of things that it really doesn't register at any level.

Here, nobody I've ever met, finding out that I'm a shooter, has ever reacted any other way.

Isn't it strange that you live in a country where you can have just about anything in the way of firearms that you want, and have so many haters, detractors and folks a'feared of you, but here, where it is THE definitive minority sport after dwarf-throwing, nobody gives a hoot.

tac

 

[etrain16]

If anybody over here asks how I spend my time, I tell them 'trains and shooting', and usually get a 'that must be interesting' and they move on to another subject. I think it's true that although one interest is well understood, that the other is so far outside the usual remit of things that it really doesn't register at any level.

Here, nobody I've ever met, finding out that I'm a shooter, has ever reacted any other way.

Isn't it strange that you live in a country where you can have just about anything in the way of firearms that you want, and have so many haters, detractors and folks a'feared of you, but here, where it is THE definitive minority sport after dwarf-throwing, nobody gives a hoot.

tac

That is very interesting, isn't it? But then, none of it is about logic, it's about emotion, irrational emotion and irrational fear, fed constantly by politicians, media and learning institutions.

 

[teflon6string]

The popular term "Gun Culture" to me means involvement as a child/teen with Indian Guides, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and my father and others teaching me the fundamentals of gun safety, target shooting, self defense and situational awareness. To these I add my own experiences and pass them on to others with care and consideration.

What it might mean to others is anybody's guess.

 

[tac]

Here, most Members of Parliament with rural constituencies are either farmers or otherwise tied to the land, and are very likely to be shooters of one kind or another. Our local MP in Northamptonshire has one son in our gun club, and regularly turns out to our guest days.

Meanwhile, the county in which I live has one of the highest levels of gun-ownership per capita of population in the entire country. True, it's shotguns we are talking about here, taking into account that a tree here is more of a talking point rather than a feature of the landscape - almost 90% of the entire county is agricultural rather than wooded and inhabited by larger game. The muntjac/jackelope is the most common deer species hereabouts - a bite-size deerette.

tac

 

[Mikej]

Reading Andy's first post here I couldn't help but think "Vehicle" practically everywhere gun/firearm was mentioned. That would be because I was behind the wheel of a vehicle well before I ever fired a gun, or had any gun "Safety" training maybe. Well, there was that one week at scout summer camp where we got a talking to and got to shoot .22s, prone, at 50'.

Driving, to a kid of 16, was pretty important where I grew up. When I drove I was serious about not messing up. We did some crazy things, but somehow managed to stop short of any damage. That was ME, and my close friends. There were certainly others that messed up, and some that died.

With guns I was self taught. I never shot with my dad, he'd given up doing things with guns before I was born. He did have a few very old rifles, Grandpas S&W service revolver and a Colt Woodsman. The only shooting I did prior to 2010 was that little bit at scout camp, and I went traipsing around the West Utah Desert a few times with a couple of buddy's and my Dad's Colt Woodsman in the early/mid '70s hoping to kill a rabbit. Dad gave those arms to me January 2010. I took the responsibility very serious and got a locking cabinet for them right away.

I'm not sure what any of that means, unless I'm trying to say there are things that require a certain amount of "Attention" to be safe doing them! Guns and Vehicles are two of them. Seems like the general public is getting dumber, is what I see. A complete lack of common sense is becoming more prevalent! I don't know how you can teach people on the opposite side of common sense anything? Guns can be very dangerous!! Common sense DAMMIT! What is so hard about that?

 

[tac]

I guess I was lucky, then, with my early learning. I started shooting when I was six years old, and not in England either. My dad had a stash of handguns - seven Colt M1911s, well, six, really, because one of them was a Colt Ace, the clever .22 version that kicked like a .45, but sounded like a firecracker, and his little Walther rifle that I still have. I only got to shoot them once a year, too, so it was always a special thing, to be enjoyed and savoured. We didn't talk about it when we went back to England, either. The discipline of shooting was instilled in me at a young age, and has never left me - nor has the love of guns and shooting, and the sense of responsibility and self-discipline that gun-ownership brings.

tac

 

[Medic!]

Thoughts on guns?

I grew up wild and free.
It's not an Idea I adopted later in life.

 

[cigars]

Here is one reason I like guns

<broken link removed>

Aw heck....denied!

 

[oknow]

Aw heck....denied!

View attachment 317670

So sorry but rules are rules for t access.