Thoughts on Firearm Ownership

[Andy54Hawken]

I would first like to say that it is difficult to put into words just why I like firearms and own them.
Also I would like to address some worrisome ( to me ) trends in firearm ownership.
All of the following are just my thoughts and I am not saying that I speak for all here.
Or that any of what I say is meant to be taken as an offense if you feel differently.

My introduction to firearms came from my dad. He taught me gun safety and the need to respect the gun.
We called this The Responsibility of Gun Ownership.
Knowing that I have the power of life and death.
Understanding that what I do with a gun can sometimes never be undone.
That it is up to me and me alone to be sure that my guns and actions with them are always with safety first in mind.
With all of the above serious thoughts , owning a gun, knowing how it works , how to take of it learning shoot it well and the history behind it made for some great memories.

With my dad I learned that owning a gun did not make you a hero or a good guy or even a bad guy.
You had the responsibility to account for your actions with the gun.
We shared a love of history and wanting to know just how a particular gun worked.
Being able to master the art of shooting and hitting that distant small mark was and is a source of pride , excitement and enjoyment to me.
Going out in the game fields and taking part of the hunt , a active player in the game of life is almost a religion with me.

With these thoughts in mind , I worry about what I have seen in magazines , posted online or in the news .
Things like:
Buying with only the thought of the purpose of this gun.
That one must a reason to own a gun.
Or that I must have the latest in guns or gadget because it will make it easier / a shortcut through not learning the skill for me to shoot.
Buying , selling or using "fear" as a factor in owning a gun.
The heavy focus on just one type or perceived type of gun.
A seeming lack of understanding the different types and history of firearms.

My biggest worry is that a new gun owner will not experience the same or better sense of ownership that I have due to today's viewpoint and outlook on guns and gun ownership.

Again all of the above is just my thoughts , each to be taken or ignored as you like.
Andy

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[Stomper]

Think of "gun magazines" as analogous to "beauty magazines" with "10 sex tricks to keep your man faithful", or "burn away that baby-belly by watching Oprah for 12 hours a day".....


On that note I ask the question of folks "like us"... do you own the gun, or does it actually own you?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I do like you comments on gun magazines Stomper.
Anything we own can "own" us in return.
The trick I see to ownership is to not let what you own define you or who you are.
Andy

 

[tac]

Andy, these are all thoughts that might go through the mind of any rational person in a society where guns are so easy to acquire legally.

Sadly, it takes a whole lot of draconian laws, such as those that prevail in most of the rest of the European Free World situated to the left of Israel, to bring home the seriousness of the reasons behind wanting a firearm. Making it difficult, as it is for the rest of us without the RKBA, is one way getting people to HAVE to learn about guns and gun ownership BEFORE they can have one.

As I've mentioned about thirty-nine gazillion times - maybe more - here in the UK, if you want to take up even .22 target rifle of the serious 'squint-n-squeeze-trussed-up' kind, you MUST

1. Join a club as a probie.

2. Do the probie time, which, for a complete noob, can last between three and six months.

3. Only after that, and with the approval of the club committee, the write-up of the club secretary and two other non-connected referees, can you even APPLY for a firearms certificate. And insome parts of the UK, getting that little piece of paper can take up to forty-two weeks - Essex police and Metropolitan [London] police are notorious for that appalling lack of response.

Note the use of that word - it is not a license, it is a certificate. A license permits you to do something that you would otherwise not be able to do - a certificate certifies that you are a fit and suitable person to do something, in this case, acquire and possess firearm.

As some of you know, I'm also the president of the Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland [www.vcrai.com], and the Republic has a LOT more grief in certain counties, even that that. Each county has a police Superintendent, who may or may not be having a bad day when your application for an FAC[1] crosses his tabletop. In which case, you may just end up taking him to court to get a High Court judge to change his mind for him after he has refused you a renewal for a gun that you may have had since Noah was learning to build a boat.

In a recent High Court drama, a number of Gardaí Chief Superintendents were found guilty of physically altering applications submitted to them in order to further their own POV about the private ownership of firearms. One pal of mine has just had such a decision for his target handgun renewal to be authorised after FOUR years of court wrangling, and many thousands of Euros of his own money having been spent.

Sometimes, getting hold of a firearm can be just too easy.

tac

 

[tac]

HUH?

tac

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Was wondering that myself tac ...
Whats with the strike through?
Although I do appreciate the fact that you think I'm among the "rational people". LOL!
Andy

 

[Larrytpdx]

Well put Andy. Seems like your dad taught you well!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thanks Larry.
Glad to hear my OP made some sort of sense , was afraid of rambling way out there. LOL
Andy

 

[Medic!]

Rational?
In this crazy world!

Rational is owning guns.

 

[Kristina]

As with many of your posts, I wish I could "like" this more than once.

 

[Larrytpdx]

As with many of your posts, I wish I could "like" this more than once.

 

[Stomper]

Tac,

I do understand what you're talking about and agree with the "sentimentality" of what the goal is; engaging your brain and being circumspect in your actions, personal responsibility, empathy, etc. Men "like us" have no need of "bridle & bit", because we're not "animals" that need to be guided and controlled in order to keep things safe & orderly. It's already part of our personal ethics.

Where the "rub" lies (for me) in the "system" you articulated is that it strikes me as the burden to "prove my innocence" to the "system" is incumbent upon me, rather than the burden being on the "system" to "prove my guilt".

The way I see it, that approach makes it far too easy for "well connected elites" to breeze through, whereas for us "nobody's" if the club secretary doesn't "like your beard", or your "fashion sense", or if you're not "dating the chief constable's daughter" can deny (or severely delay) the "process".

I think this is a marked difference in the "systems" of our two countries, and given the "colonial history" with one another it has made the premise of "American law" and our "system" like it is. True "liberty" requires personal responsibility (which of course requires personal effort), and unfortunately those who shirk that responsibility only get dealt with after they cause destruction.

Short of "clipping" everyone's liberty that's the only way to deal with it. Nothing in this life is free, and enjoying true liberty is certainly no exception. I take FULL responsibility for my safety (not implying UK citizens don't), and would choose living "in the wild jungles" of liberty ANY DAY over living "under" (in my perception) the "one size fits all-State safety blanket", that generally only apply to the "proles".

Laws truly are for the lawless, let the lawless be dealt with.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

As with many of your posts, I wish I could "like" this more than once.

Thanks kristina.
Nice to know what I write make sense or strikes a chord.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

Interesting thoughts Andy. I have to say I agree with your post above. Like you, I first learned about guns from my father. He was not a hunter, so guns were more for protection, competition (he was an active trap shooter for years), for fun and for study (accuracy). I was taught gun safety and responsibility from the very beginning and received my first gun from him, a Marlin 60 I still own, when I was about 13. He trusted me enough with that gun that he left it with me, in my room, with the admonition that the trigger lock stay on at all times, that it never be played with or handled around my friends and only unlocked with express permission from him - and I had the key. I never broke one of those rules because I took ownership and safety seriously, and I didn't want to lose the privilege of his trust in me.

If things were perfect, I would hope everyone would grow up the same way, learning about guns from their parents, learning safety, respect for their power and also not to fear them. Unfortunately, it seems that fewer and fewer parents wish to take on that responsibility and have no interest in owning guns or teaching their children about them. I think that's an important part of our society we've been losing over time.

So, it should be no surprise that newer gun owners, particularly those that don't have the benefit of such an upbringing, are motivated differently and treat ownership differently, than those of us with a different background. I don't know that's necessarily a bad thing, per se, it's just different. Will they respect the responsibility of gun ownership? Will they take safety seriously? Well, that depends on the person - just as some drivers are responsible and others are not, so it will always be with gun owners too. Personally, I think (whether right or wrong) that most gun owners are responsible, take safety and ownership seriously, and are adding in a positive way to the general group of gun owners.

As for your view on magazines and websites, as well as sites like this, well, there will always be those that seek to make money off the nature of humans to own whatever is new, popular, pretty or cool. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, in fact, I'm happy to see the gun manufacturers innovate and grow, because that benefits us all. I myself don't find magazines and websites all that interesting when it comes to what motivates me to buy - I'm much more motivated by guns I see at the range, get to handle, or just see doted on by owners, such as we see here on the forum.

Now, is fear as a motivation to buy a gun or maybe a particular gun necessarily a bad thing? I would say not necessarily. There are legitimate reasons to buy out of a motivation of fear, and that includes fear that the government may take away your right to purchase a particular firearm or accessory. I'll admit that I bought an AR out of, perhaps, not so much fear, though that was part of it, but more so the desire to thumb my nose up to those that are trying to take them away. Before that, I really hadn't thought much about owning an AR - I saw them, I liked them, but never felt the need to own one. To my surprise, my symbolic act of defiance against the anti-gun crowd led me to learning about, and truly enjoying/appreciating, AR style rifles. They are a ton of fun to shoot, and now I have the chance to use them in certain events, such as Appleseed and Service Rifle (CMP). I also appreciate the modularity (something that appeals greatly to me with guns), the ability to set it up to fit and work for me, not for everyone else. Plus it can be purposed for self-defense and even hunting, if needed. For that reason, I see why some folks are motivated in such a way and certainly wouldn't hold anything against them for doing so.

I guess for me, no matter the motivation, I would take every opportunity to strongly encourage any new owners to get some training - if they can't afford it, and I'm in a position to do so, I'll help to provide at least some of that training - in fact, I've done that with several folks myself. Personally, I think we all have opportunities to help fill the gap created by a generation or two of folks that no longer teach their kids these things, if we help step in and inform and instruct those that missed out on those earlier opportunities.

I guess ultimately it doesn't matter as much to me what motivates someone to buy a particular gun, I just hope they take it seriously and treat the gun with the respect it deserves.

Side note for me - I've found myself, after entering the world of semi-auto rifles a number of years back, being drawn back to simpler guns - bolt guns and even black powder guns. Something about them appeals to the simpler reasons behind shooting - being deliberate and accurate and knowing as much about your gun and the load/rounds you send downrange as you can. I've seen this with other folks too - maybe it's a normal progression. If not, maybe it should be

Anyway, nice insights Andy. It's always interesting to see how differently people here view guns and gun culture. Certainly there are multiple points of view and I'm thankful that folks do look back fondly on earlier firearms and the somewhat bygone days of a sometimes more respectful gun culture. I think we can get that back, if we work together to make it happen.

 

[clearconscience]

I can see a problem coming for us with firearms safety.
As they country becomes more dangerous and they try to tighten that noose on guns in this country more poorly trained people and those who lack a healthy fear and respect of guns will start panic buying causing more accidents with guns from ignorant use/storage.

This will add fuel to the control crowds power grasp.

I think people who own guns should hunt and/or go with someone hunting. Watch what happens when firearms kill something.
Or in the CHL classes they should have to view photos of what firearm injuries look like.

That will turn off the less than intelligent.

 

[etrain16]

Honestly, if the anti's would back off of their complete assault on gun ownership and gun rights, the panic/fear buying would subside considerably and we could possibly get back to a calmer level of ownership. The anti's are creating this storm of new owners, especially of AR's, AK's, etc., if they don't like it, they should simply walk away from the whole gun control debate. Simple rule of human nature - tell someone they can't do something, they'll want to do it, tell them they can't own something, they want to own it. They are responsible for the fear, they can bring it to an end, but they won't.

 

[11Charlie]

Everyone that has commented on this thread has mad a real and sensible point to owning firearms. I to was taught how to handle fire arms by my father and grandfather. Its scary when you look around at some of the people today. Thinking that bubblegum could be carrying a firearm concealed in public. I personally think that if the government wants to pass laws then they should pass a law that people have to take classes on firearms. How to handle and safety by a certified instructor before they can purchase. My wife has just come to the point where she wants the right to carry. I told her she needs to take a class so that she feels more comfortable with fire arms before I would feel comfortable with her doing so. She knows the basics but wasn't brought up around them as many of us have been. Just my thoughts on helping the awareness of firearm safety.

 

[etrain16]

Everyone that has commented on this thread has mad a real and sensible point to owning firearms. I to was taught how to handle fire arms by my father and grandfather. Its scary when you look around at some of the people today. Thinking that bubblegum could be carrying a firearm concealed in public. I personally think that if the government wants to pass laws then they should pass a law that people have to take classes on firearms. How to handle and safety by a certified instructor before they can purchase. My wife has just come to the point where she wants the right to carry. I told her she needs to take a class so that she feels more comfortable with fire arms before I would feel comfortable with her doing so. She knows the basics but wasn't brought up around them as many of us have been. Just my thoughts on helping the awareness of firearm safety.

I agree it's a very good idea to get training, but I do stop short of making it a requirement, in part, because I don't like government getting involved, secondly because some people can barely afford a gun and ammo, much less several hundred more dollars for a 'required' training class. No, I'd rather see the gun community do what they can to teach/train newbies and to encourage better training as funds and time allow. I just hate involving government requirements on private gun ownership - that NEVER ends well for us.

 

[11Charlie]

I agree it's a very good idea to get training, but I do stop short of making it a requirement, in part, because I don't like government getting involved, secondly because some people can barely afford a gun and ammo, much less several hundred more dollars for a 'required' training class. No, I'd rather see the gun community do what they can to teach/train newbies and to encourage better training as funds and time allow. I just hate involving government requirements on private gun ownership - that NEVER ends well for us.

I do totally agree etrain16 I might not have put it quite the way I meant. If the government is going to get involved I would rather see them require training than banning fire arms. Sorry I came across the way I did. Was not intended that way

 

[etrain16]

I do totally agree etrain16 I might not have put it quite the way I meant. If the government is going to get involved I would rather see them require training than banning fire arms. Sorry I came across the way I did. Was not intended that way

No apologies needed, I didn't necessarily think you were advocating for government involvement, I do get where you're coming from. It's a fine line between wanting something and wanting to require it for others. Freedom can be a messy business at times, which is why I advocate for gun owners to be their own best resource and help where they can. I think we're on the same page there.