This will end the debate

[etrain16]

I think you handled that just right as you did. I don't know you past what I read on this forum, but your patience and constraint seem to be a sure sign of love for a friend.

We have a long and difficult row to hoe.

Thanks. I did hold back a bit, if only for the hope that he might recognize in himself that he was acting a bit irrational and was unable to get past emotion. I was also hoping to remind him, again, that just because someone is conservative, it doesn't mean they're a monster.

 

[I-Shoot]

Well thought out and produced video.

The last frame of that video should freeze on a website with links to the sources of every statistic shown in that video...

I could show that to a dozen people but in today's world of "made up facts" they will not give it a second thought unless the sources are sighted. At least the people I know, maybe there are others who believe everything they see. I'm not saying that every graph and historic reference in the video is not true, I'm just saying that everything needs to be verified -- especially when you are trying to change someone's mind. It's the age we live in, fake statistics, fake news... it gets harder to find the truth every day.

 

[ThePhonMan]

I had the unique experience of landing at Frankfurt Airport at ~10am local time on November 9th. Having been on a flight for over 10 hours with only access to a delayed CNN broadcast I knew the election was turning but the final result wasn't a done deal (as far as I knew).

I walked into Customs as the only person there and a very nice agent asked me if I had heard the results of the election (he actually asked if I had heard about my evaluation first but after I looked at him puzzled he swapped the vocabulary words around and remembered "election"). I replied that I heard Trump was leading. His response was, "It's all over. He's won". There was a moment of awkward silence and he smiled and said "Welcome to Germany".

However, when I exited Customs, the German TV stations, most Germans I walked past and just about everybody else was losing their minds. Over our election? Most American's don't even know who Merkel is nor do we care but they spent the next 3 days while I was there weeping, whaling and gnashing their teeth.

I just had to laugh. From the shear hysteria, one would have thought we elected someone from their past to lead our country.

 

[bbbass]

I don't know if I can take reading this thread! I'll have to go to my safe space because I am just soooooo upset!!!!

 

[cigars]

We walk this planet with a lot of different people. We owe none of them for the most part, anything.

 

[Goosebrown]

Maybe I should have asked him how he would feel about mountain control? People die climbing mountains almost every day around the world. Wouldn't it be worth it if we just put a ban on mountain climbing to save lives? Maybe limit climbing to know more than say, 500 feet, just to make sure people are less likely to be killed

You can't have uncontrolled mountains. That'd be dangerous you need to ban the mountains not just the climbing of them.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I don't think they can see too good what with their heads up their arseholes. so no

 

[DB is Here]

Cooking bacon was genius.

Afraid you will lose that friend. I have lost four or five good friends that drank the kool aid of the left.

If you lose a friend over politics, I doubt he was one to begin with...

 

[wired]

The first step the US was heading that way was the "Gun Control Act" of 1968. Portions of that act came from the Gun Control in Germany prior to the war.

The 1938 Nazi gun control act was a massive expansion of firearms ownership rights within the Reich. The country was still playing lip service to the Treaty of Versailles up the that point. Firerarms ownership had essentially been banned under the treaty of Versailles and by law in the Weimar Republic. The Nazi's greatly relaxed gun ownership for most citizens.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Around 30 years ago in college, I became friends with a fella (school president) from Germany. A group of thirty of us were out on a 2 week field class and when we were almost alone, drinking whiskey around our fire, he brought up guns. Well, I was giving pro-gun speeches and papers way back even then (he didn't know) and we almost came to blows in like thirty seconds.. his gal stopped it.. which was probably a good idea all around. I think they're deeply brainwashed against personal responsibility/freedom.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Based on past history, I tend to agree with your friend that Germans should not have guns.

 

[wired]

Lived in Germany for years both in and out of the Army. Don't let the stereotypical German fool you. There is quite a gun culture in Germany they just don't know about because the two groups really don't intermingle. Its different than ours but it is robust nonetheless.

 

[Alexx1401]

Maybe I should have asked him how he would feel about mountain control? People die climbing mountains almost every day around the world. Wouldn't it be worth it if we just put a ban on mountain climbing to save lives? Maybe limit climbing to know more than say, 500 feet, just to make sure people are less likely to be killed

They are trying to do that here. Every time some moron gets killed on Rainier they start in again with passing laws to protect the idiots from themselves. The one got killed in one of the ice caves. Family wants a FENCE erected around the whole thing. The kind of idiot who died in there would cut a hole in it to get in.

 

[Flopsweat]

They are trying to do that here. Every time some moron gets killed on Rainier they start in again with passing laws to protect the idiots from themselves. The one got killed in one of the ice caves. Family wants a FENCE erected around the whole thing. The kind of idiot who died in there would cut a hole in it to get in.

Sounds like there should be a fence erected around the family.

 

[Stomper]

A friend of ours from Germany is visiting over the holiday. We're the same age, attended senior year of high school together 30 years ago. He, raised, obviously under the German model of schooling, politics, etc., me, obviously, raised in the greatest country in the world His last visit was 5 years ago. Last night we spent about 6 hours together, catching up, going over his adventures (he climbs mountains all over the world) and, toward the end of the night, he brought politics into it.

Now, he knows we're conservatives, and we know he's, by American political standards quite a hard-left liberal. This friend I've known for 30 years proceeded to, well the best word for it would be "lecture" me on our political system, how Trump was going to be worse for Germany than even for us here and how Americans have no idea how to run a country. Since he's my friend, I humored him in this conversation - we've never agreed politically, but this time, he was really rattled. I've never seen him like this before. Then he disclosed to me that "cried for 4 days" after Trump was elected. Are you sh!tting me?! This is a 47-year-old man, a highly intelligent software engineer/programmer and seasoned world traveler/adventurer, who couldn't function for 4 days because of a damn election? When did my old friend become a weepy special snowflake?!

We went on to further discuss politics - the whole time I had a friendly smile on my face, blocking attack after attack with reason and rational statements, while he countered with emotion and the same slanderous attacks used by the media during the election. When I asked for real, concrete evidence of his claims about certain people, he offered back in return emotion and hyperbole - hardly the tools of an intelligent, rational man. He also described Pence as, well, just about equivalent to Hitler himself, though he stopped short of that actual conclusion. He made the statement that Obama will go down as one of the greatest presidents in American history - I laughed out loud, in his face, which seemed to cause him some distress. As we continued to talk, his frustration only grew that I wasn't falling prey to his claims - at which point I reminded him I've heard all this for the last 18 months and he offered absolutely nothing substantive or new - I told him I've heard it all before, more times than I could count. He proceeded to assault the electoral college process and how outdated it was - my only response was a question - did you (he) or Hillary or anyone else complain about the electoral college being 'outdated' and needing to be replaced before Hillary lost?? Silence. He knew the answer - if the Dems had won, they would have been all to happy to have accepted the results of the election, based on the EC results. I told him if someone thought it was so outdated, they should have been working to abolish it years ago, but no, they are perfectly happy with it, when it works for them. This conversation went on for a good hour or so, until we had to leave to get our daughter. But before we left, he wanted to take one more swipe - at Cruz this time. I never mentioned Cruz or that I would have supported him, but he jumped to that conclusion. I asked him what was so bad about Cruz, and that's where this long response returns back to the point of this thread.

I asked him, like I did before, for some real examples of why Cruz would have been worse (his words) than even Trump. Here is the magic response. His concrete example of why Cruz would have been so bad, so dangerous for the US and the rest of the world, was summed up in this 1 minute YouTube video:

Yep. That's his concrete evidence of Cruz's unfitness to serve as President - he cooked bacon on an AR. In my friend's mind, that act showed that Cruz was so over the top, so psychopathic, that he could never be trusted to run anything. I smiled back at my old friend and said, politely, without the least bit of irony, that I think that simply made Cruz a fun guy and I'd love to cook bacon with him like that some day. Problem is that he's known me long enough to know that I'm no psychopath, that I'm nothing like the slanderous accusations he throws after the politicians I've supported, so when I say I agree with them, don't see the problems he sees, it really messes with his mind. I'm none of those things, but he only believes what the American media have told him to believe, so he sees only a contradiction he can't come to terms with. After he picked his jaw up off the floor, we wrapped up our conversation. I left him with this - here's your problem - you've spent way too much time in Germany - you need to come and live as an American for a while, maybe we can get you straightened out I fear I may have made him cry a little again last night after we left

I think his responses, both to the political discussion, and to the gun discussion is simply pointing out that for some folks, not just in Germany, but here at home, guns are so terrifying, so horribly frightening, that there is no amount of reason, no amount of reality, that can overturn the deep-seated fear and hatred they have of the things, or the people that own them. For them, reason, ration, even well-mannered gun owners, will never be enough to overcome their irrational fear of an inanimate object or of their owners.

I hope he comes back to visit soon - I haven't yet shown him what's in my safe, or taken him to shoot his first AR Unfortunately, I fear I won't see him for at least 8 years - he said he won't return to the US so long as "President P*ssy Grabber" is still in office

You should have done a "battle of the bulge" on him and replied with a simple, "nuts!"

Sounds like there should be a fence erected around the family.

More like stuff them all into a family sized condom and tie off the open end!

 

[mjbskwim]

More like stuff them all into a family sized condom and tie off the open end!

I've been looking for one of those. Can't seem to find one that fits me

 

[Caveman Jim]

Well, if I lose him as a friend, it will be because of him, not me. I'm content knowing people that believe differently than I do - in fact, I said as much last night - I said "wouldn't it be boring to live in a world where everyone believed exactly the same thing?" - his response was a silent look of disdain. I can be friends with people of differing religious, political or other beliefs, not everyone can do that. I guess I'll see if he's still willing to talk to me after 4 years of Trump

You are so right, I can't do what you do. I have no hair left on my head to pull out.....

 

[Stomper]

Ahem.... you haven't seen etrain's hairline, have you?

 

[etrain16]

Ahem.... you hang seen etrain's hairline, have you?

Hey now! I just may resemble that remark

 

[etrain16]

You should have done a "battle of the bulge" on him and replied with a simple, "nuts!"

View attachment 332105

More like stuff them all into a family sized condom and tie off the open end!

As he was lecturing (in the vein of Obama ) me on all the problems of American politics and how the German system, with their parliament and 7 political parties is what we need, I was VERY tempted to say the following:

"Regarding the political process differences between our two countries, I'm reminded of something - ONE of our country's started 2 world wars, and one helped end 2 world wars. Now, remind me again, which self-righteous, holier-than-thou country was the one that started those wars?"

I thought about saying that, but I didn't, it probably wouldn't have helped the discussion