Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

This is why we need videos.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by ted.wen, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. ted.wen

    ted.wen Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    28


    My opinion is that the officer fired the gun need to be kicked off the force. Charged or not may depend on more details of the circumstance.

    It was a bike theft report, not gang or violent crime. It was absurd to see officers pulled guns out to check on bike theft. And they got the wrong guys.

    On top of that, there were no signs these guys were aggressive or hinted any aggressions. The only thing the guy did to prompt the shooting was letting his arms down a few times. If I injured my arm and couldn't raise them for a long time I could get shot by police?

    Police officers need to be trained more on how to interact with people, how to read people's behavior, especially people not from the same cultural background. If police simply applies the law literally and take any small thing as a reason to shoot, we may as well just go for RoboCops.

    BTW, I don't hate cops. I support the officer in the Brown case and even give the cops the benefit of doubt to the choking death case. But this makes me sick.
     
  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    Well, the kid looked like he was trying to be tough.. Stepping out, waving his hands..
    I mean, christ.. When a firearm is drawn on youby trigger happy leos WHY ON EARTH would you motion or flail like he did.

    However, with that said..
    Why the bubblegum did the cops draw on kids who reportedly stole a bike?
    In that instance.. Why wasnt his tazed deployed. I agree, he was in the wrong for firing on the punk.

    He even had another officer covering his 3'oclock in case the kid drew a weapon.. Which he didnt.. The one thing I will say is, we did t hear what the "tough guy" was saying.
    Granted he could have been in the right the whole time, his body language did show signs of aggression, to me anyhow..

    He should have stayed put and kept his hands in the air, simple enough. In my opinion this wasnt the time for the kid to "make a stand".. Its a lose lose.
    The kid looks mexican.. Whats sad is.. If you're any race other than black.. The media could care less. That isnt a racist remark, its the truth. We wont hear a word about this or other stories like it in the media.
     
    BoonDocks36 likes this.
  3. Monica Cowles

    Monica Cowles Grays Harbor, Washington Member, NRA (Life) USCCA, ACLDN, SAF (Life) Staff Member Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    With respect, shootings like this are not the result of "stealing some potato ships" or "cigars", or "stealing a bike." These are the direct result of not complying/cooperating perfectly with easily follow-able orders from a law enforcement officer upon detainment.

    In this age of disrespect and rebellion, simply 'obeying an order' is not seen as something they 'hafta doo'. Mr CockyCool got one of his compliant friends possibly killed because he couldn't simply obey, stand there with his arms straight up and 'stand still' until the officers could initiate a conversation or put them in cuffs. He just 'had' to show his nasty attitude and lack of cooperation.

    The young fella's behavior of flailing his arms, attempting to move backward out of sight, bringing his hat down off his head and towards his waist could easily have been an attempt at distraction in order to bring out a firearm to someone with a little bit of understanding. Officers can certainly err on the hyper vigilant side, but who can blame them for wanting to go home alive at the end of their shift to their families? After hearing about officers executed while sitting in their cars, I can easily understand their caution and the need for quickly establishing control/cooperation during detainment of suspects of any sort.
     
  4. revjen45

    revjen45 Snohomish County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    319
    It looked to me like he was executed for contempt of cop. I admit I could be wrong and as things get sorted out it may go down as justified.
     
  5. WasrNwarpaint

    WasrNwarpaint Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    make all the excuses you want about the kids behavior
    we used to be able to file harassment cases against the cops
    but now......how dare you ask a cop ........what you harassing me for?....they plant ya


    "quote" I admit I could be wrong and as things get sorted out it may go down as justified.
    they pretty much all go down as justified!
     
    mjbskwim likes this.
  6. Monica Cowles

    Monica Cowles Grays Harbor, Washington Member, NRA (Life) USCCA, ACLDN, SAF (Life) Staff Member Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    You can still file harassment cases against cops.:rolleyes:

    After the interaction is over, get a good lawyer and take 'em to court if you really think you have a case.

    In the meantime, comply with their orders, take good video, and make sure your own behavior is without fault.o_O
     
  7. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    4,099
    Perps...
    Rule 1- Don't steal a bike ( or anything else) while hanging out late at night.
    Rule 2- Don't move when you're told to stand still.
    Rule 3- Hands up and stay that way.
    Rule 4- Shut up and stay that way.
    Rule 5- Don't wave your hat or anything else around (see 2 above)
    Rule 6- Keep hands away from beltline and pockets (see 2 above)
    Rule 7- Do not try to impress you're friends by acting all "gangster"
    Rule 8- Never forget rules 2-7 even if you frequently forget rule 1.

    Cops....
    Rule 1- Keep your finger off the trigger until you actually SEE a weapon.
    Rule 2- If you've become so antsy that 3 kids stealing a bike has you immediately drawing your weapon...stay in the car, call for more backup.
    Rule 3- Watch the caffeine/Red Bull intake.(I know you've pulled a lot of overtime, but geeze!).

    This looks like a rooky, hair triggered, screw-up to me. whoever trained these two and set them loose, should be up on charges too.
     
  8. scasey

    scasey Hillsboro New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Not following police orders should not get you executed, what the bubblegum. How can anyone say this is a result of not following orders, ridiculous. People aren't perfect and police often aren't clear on their orders, and even if people were and police were, this is morally wrong, and ridiculous. Yeah, the kid should stand still and be perfect, but he shouldn't be murdered for not.
     
    Galant likes this.
  9. ted.wen

    ted.wen Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    28
    To be clear, these three did not steal bikes and the cops got the wrong guys. The guy was off work from a 12 hour shift.

    I do agree that both sides bear some responsibilities. But I was walking or biking on the street, all of sudden cops stops me and pulled guns on me for no apparent reasons, I would be confused and wonder what's going on and act a little odd. Sure, I would follow order from anyone with a gun pointing at me.
     
  10. ted.wen

    ted.wen Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    28
    Yes, that would be the perfect thing to do. This is why I am not sure if the cop should be charged for the shooting. However, the cop should be displined for pulling the gun in the first place. They got the wrong guys and did not try to have a conversion to understand more about three are doing. They unnecessarily escalated the situation.

    Such a cop would only create more problems for the police department in the future. There has to be a threshold on when to draw a gun.
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  11. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

    Messages:
    4,187
    Likes Received:
    6,677
    Nothing to say
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
    mjbskwim likes this.
  12. scrandall01215

    scrandall01215 Washougal,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    529
    I generally support the police and officer involved shootings, but this appears to be flat out murder. The guy never reached for anything and guns shouldn't have to be drawn for a bike theft ( non violent crime )
    They both should be prosecuted!
    At lest from what we can see from the video. What happened before the video started could play a factor too.
    Stacy
     
  13. Monica Cowles

    Monica Cowles Grays Harbor, Washington Member, NRA (Life) USCCA, ACLDN, SAF (Life) Staff Member Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Not following police orders does not get you executed or murdered. Do you know what an execution or a murder is? This is an execution and a murder. Or visa versa... Just sayin'. Words mean things.

    Behaving in a way that could be interpreted, in a split second of time under stress, as though you are going to draw a weapon and put officers' lives at risk may mean that the LEO needs to shoot to stop the threat.
     
  14. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,828
    Likes Received:
    6,267
    Ya'll should be happy they are not selling the body parts too..:D

    Edited to add the commies in China sell the body parts of criminals, being as how the commies here are selling baby parts now it won't be long before they harvest criminal parts too. When they find capitalism they go full blast.:D
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  15. WasrNwarpaint

    WasrNwarpaint Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    You can still file harassment cases against cops.:rolleyes:

    tell that to all the dead kids..... you clearly missed the point.........kill first ask questions later.....yeah its hard to file a complaint when your DEAD:eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
    Dyjital likes this.
  16. ThePhonMan

    ThePhonMan Spokanistan Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    353
    This is far from an execution but it warrants further investigation for sure. The general situation may seem a bit odd to anybody here who has not worked nights in Gardena, CA. I spent 5 years doing it and was put in the position of having to draw on an attempted strong-arm robber. Not my preferred situation but no shots were fired and the gentlemen ended the night in police custody.

    What you may not notice in this video is the beep tone you hear in the background that repeats every few seconds. This is the hold tone that goes out when the “air is secured” for emergency traffic only. The stop alone apparently warranted securing the air and more than one unit. That is NOT standard procedure (even in Gardena, Compton, Watts, etc.) for a stolen bike call. There is much more to this than appears in the edited video. I will refrain from passing judgment until the full details are available.

    It does appear (from what we can see in this edited video) that the cop who started shooting thought he saw something and the second cop reacted to the gunfire in kind. I wonder how any of us would react if our “partner” opened fire? Would we pause and contemplate why or react the same way. Stop the threat and then sort it out? May not seem like a good idea now but everybody’s hope is to go home alive (including the uncooperative guy on the bike).

    There are no good options in that moment, only bad and worse ones.
     
    Nightcrawler and hker71 like this.
  17. rltrim46ford

    rltrim46ford lebanon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    252
    I'm not up to speed but can get the general picture. Definitely do what the law tells you to do. Not a lot a rocket science there. My big question is what, does the term "bubblegum" mean? Seems to get used here a lot and for some of us not up to speed on the latest use of the English language, we loose something in interpretation.
     
  18. balaperdida

    balaperdida eastern idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    295
    If "contempt of cops" is a capital offense, I am developing a very limited lifespan.
     
    Nick Burkhardt and albin25 like this.
  19. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    The forum changes some of the more salty language used by adults to 'bubblegum.". It has nothing to so with firearms just a way the admin has chosen to limit the colorful metaphors used when swearing.
     
  20. scasey

    scasey Hillsboro New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Seriously, this is all that needs to be said. The guy was flat out murdered. Whether or not a Grand Jury agrees, it is still immoral and ridiculous, people make mistakes.

    Bubblegum means I said the "F word"