JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Messages
12,923
Reactions
47,170
And you thought things in Detroit were bad...

memphis-thugs-e1469720347273.jpg

Three thugs attacked an ice cream truck driver with a baseball bat in an armed robbery yesterday and beat him severly in an attack that clearly justified the use of deadly force in response.

A man driving an ice cream truck was attacked by three suspects outside the Bella Vista Apartments.

The police reports says the suspects robbed Mamadou Bah, 54, of 480 dollars and then beat him.

Police said the incident happened around 7:20 p.m. on Tuesday.

Charra Terry witnessed the attack.
"It was sad, real, real sad to see," Terry said.
Officers were told three males assaulted the victim. He was transported to a local hospital in non-critical condition.

While the exact wording to justify the use of deadly force varies from state to state, the general principle is that citizens have the right to use deadly force to repeal a deadly force attack on themselves or a third party.

In this incident, 54-year-old ice cream truck operator Mamadou Bah is outnumbered 3-1 and his attackers are using a baseball bat against him in an armed robbery. If Bah had a concealed carry permit and shot the man swinging the bat at him he would have clearly been legally justified in this attack captured on camera.

2-attack-e1469720821150.jpg

Depending on the laws in individual states, he may also have been legally justified in shooting the other criminals taking part in the armed robbery.

3-attack-e1469720845241.jpg

What may surprise some people is that Bah is not the only person who had the option of using a firearm to defend him from this attack. Third party self-defense, though rarely implemented, is legal in most jurisdictions. A legally-armed citizen in the same vantage point as the cameraman would be legally justified almost anywhere in shooting the bat-wielding criminal through the side or back to save Bah from this attack.

4-attack-e1469720979345.jpg

The attacker appears to have been aiming the bat at Bah's head in an attack that could have easily crippled or killed him.

bah-e1469721461879.jpg

Bah's arm was broken attempting to block one of these violent swings.

The ice cream truck driver, who has no criminal record of any kind, can obtain a concealed carry permit in the state of Tennessee and carry a firearm upon his person or in his vehicle as he works.

I'd strongly suggest that he do so before returning to work.

This Beating Of Ice Cream Man Should Have Resulted In Gunfire
 
I watched this video this morning, what I found interesting was that the ice cream truck was severely crashed before the video.. I find that quite odd, but yes I couldnt stand by and watch that, let alone video tape it. By the look of the thugs if he had pulled a pistol out to defend himself after the guy with the bat showed up, I am pretty sure they would have all ran, on the other side of the story.. I would then start getting afraid that they would run home (just around the corner in that project) and grab a gun and come back.
 
Lots of bad stuff here. Mamadou Bah is here on a VISA from Ghana. He told reporters that he sends most of the money that he makes back home to Africa to support his wife and 3 children there. He is not a US citizen.

The men who attacked him were vigilantes. Rumours had been circulating in this apartment complex that an ice cream truck driver was molesting and raping little children. When Bah was spotted, they assumed he was a child rapist.

So without any proof, and based only on hearsay, they attacked him to take justice in their own hands.

The local news station that did the report at the link below, found no evidence that Bah has ever had any criminal history. All that they could dig up on him was a vehicle registration citation. His employer also vouches for Bah in the video at this link below, saying that he is a good man and has been a hard worker for his business for 9 years.

So people spread rumours about a child molester, folks get angry and outraged, and an apparently innocent man is then targeted.

This link also has a video of the attack. By the way, the man that recorded this video failed to call 911, or offer any assistance to Bah. All he did was stand and watch. I guess that is just typical nowadays.

Anyway, now you know the rest of the story.

Ice Cream Truck Driver speaks out about being attacked as he drove his truck (http://wreg.com/2016/07/27/ice-cream-truck-driver-speaks-out-about-being-attacked-as-he-drove-his-truck/)
 
Lance
"So without any proof, and based only on hearsay, they attacked him to take justice in their own hands."
Like that Mosby . . . er, ah, hm, lady did to the Baltimore cops!!!! (Well she is mean, overbearing, and contemptible.)

Sheldon
 
Third party self defense is wonderful in concept, but the civil litigation one could end up in for defending another, let alone taking an attackers life in that situation would prove devastating.

I've pondered this many times. Would I shoot an attacker of a third person? My instinct would be to do so. But the overriding factor is my families welfare and well being. They need me to be their provider and protector, first and foremost.

Would I call 911? Certainly... Would I photograph/video record the perps? Certainly... Would I draw down on them? That's a tough one... One that I'd probably lean away from... Hopefully I never have to make that decision.
 
Third party self defense is wonderful in concept, but the civil litigation one could end up in for defending another, let alone taking an attackers life in that situation would prove devastating.

I've pondered this many times. Would I shoot an attacker of a third person? My instinct would be to do so. But the overriding factor is my families welfare and well being. They need me to be their provider and protector, first and foremost.

Would I call 911? Certainly... Would I photograph/video record the perps? Certainly... Would I draw down on them? That's a tough one... One that I'd probably lean away from... Hopefully I never have to make that decision.

That's a tough one. We have the benefit of hindsight on this one, and apparently they did NOT intend to kill him. Looking back on hindsight, it would be hard to say that using lethal force would be the just thing to do by a 3rd party. However you do have all of the criteria. Disparity of force, deadly weapon, assault with the deadly weapon, secondary felony being commited (the robery). On paper all signs point to shoot.

For the person being assaulted here it's a 100% no brainer which goes without even saying. What risks do you take as a 3rd party defender though? According to Washington State criminal code:
RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide—By other person—When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:
(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or
(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

The law would appear to be on your side. A lot could go wrong though, an awful lot. If you study Massad Ayoob's take on this specific type of situation, you lose your legal ground of Disparity of Force the instant the 3 attackers become 1. If that 1 attacker has no deadly weapon, you start to walk on more shaky legal grounds if you decide to shoot him. If, in the heat of the moment, that 3rd and final attacker turns and flees and you shoot him anyway, then you're in real trouble. If you miss your shot and injure/kill someone else, you're in it deep.

Definitely agree with you, I hope I never have to make this kind of decision.
 
Ok ...so interesting question for the dads here...I am one of them... some scumbag that shouldn't even be here molests kids in your neighborhood...you go out to beat the snot out of him because it got your Irish up ( parents can be overprotective) and some passers-by with a ccw stops..draws...and puts a hole where God didn't want one in you...getting involved isn't always a good thing to do without the facts. My concealed weapons instructor gave us a really good scenario during class. He said you are walking across at Walmart parking lot carrying a weapon concealed in your holster. You witness a six foot six inch 300 pound bodybuilder beating the ever-loving crap out of some 5 foot 5 inch 140 pound weakling. Disparity of force is there so you pulled out your gun and shoot the big guy as he is just about to choke the life out of the little guy. You then find out that's a little guy attempted to rape the big Guy's daughter in the bathroom. Did you do the right thing? Getting involved isn't always so black and white
 
I think the dilemma can be resolved if we remember a few things. Number 1 is that everybody is responsible for his own defense. If he doesn't take on that responsibility, then why should you do it for him? There are so many ways this could go wrong. You aren't going to be taking care of your family if you end up dead or in jail, and it doesn't serve their interest for you to be sued either.

On the other hand, nobody wants to live in a society where beatings and murder are happening frequently. Sometimes, somebody should step in (Kitty Genovese comes to mind). Maybe just step in for friends and family? Someone you know? For women and children?

I guess there are no good answers. Play it by ear... o_O
 
Yes he should have carried and got a permit to do so this I agree but jumping into this situation my answer is no.

I posted some of this in another post and after taking the class again I feel this way even more.

Even though I felt the same as others for a long time about jumping in to save someone I do not know but now after taking several canceled carry classes for Idaho I have come to the conclusion that the people that I am willing to lose my life for or go to jail and lose everything I have earned for is limited.

Idaho classes you, your wife, kids and parents are considered the same as you (first person) and can be defended the same as you and everyone else is a third person. This includes your girl/boy friend, roommates and even ants or uncles.

So the question is are you willing to die or willing to go to jail for a very long time for someone like in this post who you do not know. Are you willing to take the chance of getting killed leaving your kid's fatherless or motherless so he could go home to his kids or having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to prove you did the right thing while bankrupting your family so he can go home to his kid's?

If the answer is yes then by all means step in and do it.

Yes it sounds cold and in some ways it is but in many cases it is the way the laws are written that you have to make this chose.

By you jumping into this situation, a situation that you where not under any threat from, and could have walked away from you have now instigated a threat to the guy with the bat so you now become the aggressor.

Even if a shot is not fired you could be held for assault with a deadly weapon and possibly lose your gun rights because you brandished a weapon and you where not in threat of your life until you jumped in.

This is not to say you cannot do anything you can yell I am calling 911 so everyone in the county can hear you including the bad guys, honk your horn and scream then if the bad guys turns on you then you have the right to defend yourself but there is still no guarantee you will survive or stay out of jail and then the question is "is this person you do not know worth your family loosing you forever".

I had to think about this for a long time before I came to my decision. I want to the right thing but that thing is for me to go home to my family safe and sound because without me their life will be permanitly affected.

I cannot or will not tell you what to think or do but please understand your state laws on this and what you can and cannot do and then ask yourself this question:

"Is this person you do not know worth your family loosing you forever".

Also:

If you are not truly willing to die and lose everything you have for it then you should not be willing to kill for it.
 

Upcoming Events

Redmond Gun Show
Redmond, OR
Klamath Falls gun show
Klamath Falls, OR
Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top