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They don't think like you do

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Kimber Custom, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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  2. lowly monk

    lowly monk Beaverton, Oregon. Just a guy. Bronze Supporter

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    forefathersrback likes this.
  3. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  4. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    Kimber Custom, interesting article, not knowing you all that well, even more interesting. I can say from experience, most of my neighbors and current coworkers have no idea what they might be in for with a confrontation with one of these self employed street entrepreneurs. There are countless cliches that come to mind but, if you ever find yourself in a situation like that and hopefully you have your little friend with you, remember, you have the rest of your life to put that dog down. Running from an ambush only means you will die tired. Run into the ambush, take your time and hit what you aim at. With any luck the bad guys don't train.
     
  5. IheartSig

    IheartSig Beaverton Diamond Supporter Diamond Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Working in Corrections, I can confirm the point of this article. Spending as much time as I do, surrounded by these individuals, I can also confirm that knowing the motivation, rationale and capabilities of your opponent is certainly beneficial in response.

    7SFCW4 is correct as well, always assault through the ambush when able.
     
  6. Monica Cowles

    Monica Cowles Grays Harbor, Washington Member, NRA (Life) USCCA, ACLDN, SAF (Life) Staff Member Silver Supporter

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    Good stuff! :)

    Very similar to what I teach...I tell my students they need to be ready to :mad::mad::mad:explode:mad::mad::mad: in the face of their attacker. Too much self defense training is all about tactics and practicing 'how to disarm' or 'break out of a hold'. I encourage these maneuvers for exercise, and staying nimble and in shape. But, as noted, bad guys may not approach us just as we expected or practiced and if we have developed muscle memory for one approach only, we will be lost in the real deal.

    The grey matter between our ears is our best self defense and protection...;)
    There is a ton of good advice on http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ :)
     
  7. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    Monica is on top of her game. Street Criminals and Predators are opportunistic. I explain to my female students that if a predator was watching a Mall Service Exit after dark and two women emerged, one carrying a purse over her shoulder and the other carrying a purse over her shoulder and a revolver in her free hand, who do you think would be the target that evening?
     
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  8. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    That's why Krav magra has gain so much popularity,they don't necessarily train for one type of assault as they train to go full bore at your attacker.
     
  9. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    To follow up: ...go full bore at your attacker...

    I have heard this many times, in practice there are issues. The notes below are bound to start a flame war, sorry.

    MOVEMENT TO CONTACT
    Most people make their big mistake here by not as Jeff Cooper would say, living in condition YELLOW, "...Yellow: Relaxed. Alert. Aware. Ready. (May have to use pistol today)..." [http://salutetargets.com/blog/salute-to-jeff-cooper/]. In the Military we would call it a combat mindset.

    We live in an imperfect world. You have locks on your doors and you use them don't you? You carry a gun and no one has to know you are carrying it. You can keep your "gray man/woman" cover and just blend.

    Or as quoted, "...be polite to everyone you meet and also have a plan to kill them..."

    WEAPON ENGAGEMENT
    This is where most people make their next mistake (sorry, but mostly women). The professional street entrepreneur (PSE) has made his decision, you are the target. He is a street smart savvy professional, he does this for a living. He "...moves to the food..." to survive and thrive. The food moves in areas of urban splendor, this is where you will be hunted, if you think your walk from the car to the Opera Hall will be uneventful when the media has hyped the gala event you are already lost. It's like advertising a meat lovers pizza 10 for 1 special with free delivery. You are on the menu. Plan accordingly.

    Your weapon needs to be readily available and in CONDITION ONE: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.

    We are not playing here. You need to convert that metal club into a weapon faster than your PSE can close the distance. In order to do that, you must maintain situational dominance to bring the weapon to bear and make it lethal. Sadly it is difficult to train like this in our Range Safety Officer Tyrannical world. I recommend the local rock quarry.

    Practice getting your pistol out and putting lead on target. Clothing sweep or purse scramble, there will be stuff in the way ( your new PSE friend already has his/her weapon out and ready).

    Key Success Factor: Your PSE's hunt in packs, expect to engage more than one target, head on a swivel.

    ATTACKER CONTROL
    The professional street entrepreneur will not engage from a distance he/she will want to get close. Closer is better, no one will hear the threat that makes you capitulate. What you need is distance. The PSE has encountered armed resistance before and he/she is ready. What he/she does not see much is preparedness bundled with resistance. Show him/her that, as is said, "...give them nothing!..".

    Your best friend in a PSE encounter is your weak hand and arm.

    You need to know, right now that you will sustain injury.

    Your PSE has a knife and knows how to use it. They don't need to get close enough for the prison yard sub-clavical stab. If they get this close, you will be incapacitated in about 30 seconds. [http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...k-on-guards-at-pelican-bay-state-prison.html].

    He/she, upon seeing your weapon will attempt to sweep and slice your weak hand, hoping that you are not ready to accept an injury and will drop your weapon and attempt to flee, and most likely you will.

    At this point it's just some exercise before dinner for you PSE. For you, you have the rest of your natural life to get this right.

    But if you are ready to accept some damage in exchange for a long and fruitful life, you can use your weak hand/arm to allow you to tuck your gun hand in close to the body and shoot until the threat is neutralized and I mean dead here. No fancy two hand holds and chicken wing just instinctual, natural point of aim from the hip. You will hear that "...hitting a watermelon with a baseball bat..." sound and know you are now in command. Repeat slight trigger finger pressure until you are triumphant.
     
  10. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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  11. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    good article, lots of truth there. IMHO I think to survive you have to be as ruthless and heartless as the bad guys. T.V. and movies have programmed us to do the wrong thing and likely wind up dead.

    Case in point, how many fictional hostage situations have you seen? probably hundreds the good guy always capitulates, doesn't he? Bad move, in the real world the good guy dies, then the hostage. Think about it, if he is not pointing the gun at you but at the hostage where is the danger to you? IMHO the best thing to do is to close the gap until your muzzle is resting on his forehead or he repositions his gun to bring it to bear on you. In the first case he either gives up the gun or dies, second case the hostage is safe and he likely dies. Worse case is the hostage dies, then he dies, the only thing keeping him alive is a live hostage.
     
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  12. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    Situational awareness and attitude/body language will do more to PREVENT an attack than all the training we trainers will ever do to save you FROM an attack.

    If you simply follow the rules: Don't go to Stupid places at STUPID times with STUPID people to do STUPID things, your chances of ever being victimized just went down to TINY.

    Walking out of a bar at closing time, drunk? (Especially if you are female) BAD idea. But If you are going to do it, make sure you're going out to meet a cab that you called BEFORE you left and are surrounded by people.

    Walking out to a dark parking lot? Why didn't you look for the lights BEFORE you parked?

    Walk with purpose, your shoulders back, your head up and looking around. That's not a "prey" walk. A guy who might otherwise attack you may well decide to wait for easier prey.

    I could go on and on, but I won't. I spend a LOT of time teaching this stuuff in my comprehensive courses because I think it's JUST as important as anything I teach about firearms.

    Most of the muggings I read about were entirely predictable based on place, time and obliviousness of the victims to their surroundings.
     
  13. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    "...owning a gun does not make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician...", the mental decision to prevail in an attack is the only thing that matters.
     
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  14. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    The article reminded me of my time in the Infantry. We were taught the only way to survive was to be the biggest, baddest, and most violent.
    Upon contact we were trained to call out distance, direction, and description while putting rounds down range in an expedient fashion.
     
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  15. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    ...roger that Decklin, and, if within range, Naval gunfire. Boy I miss the Iowa...
     
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  16. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    yep the kind of gun you can load with midgets in the event you run low on ammo.
     
  17. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    I am reminded that a tyrants default position is to open the prison gates to create chaos on the streets to justify the decree of martial law and the confiscation of firearms. We have seen the release of 1000's of "non-violent" convicts in Portland on several occasions in previous decades.
    It is not uncommon for tyrants to enroll such scum into organized units as a means of oppressing and terrifying the population
     
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  18. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    Get off the X, move laterally or diagonally, shoot them in the face, repeatedly.
     
  19. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    The Parable of the Sheep

    parableofsheep.jpg

    Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

    One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. “Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!”

    One sheep spoke up, saying “It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery.” The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

    That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried “Begone! We are not food!” and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

    The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out “Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!”

    The brave sheep stopped, amazed. “But we are your brethren!” they cried, “We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!”

    “Baaaaaaaddd!”, cried the flock,”the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!”. So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

    In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep’s weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, “Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!”.

    And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying “It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!”. But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of “Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!”.

    Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying “Baaaaddd! Bad things!”.

    That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep’s totems and signs, and said, “Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!”. And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

    In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, “See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!”. But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, “Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!”. The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another’s teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

    The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

    So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

    They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

    By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997
     
  20. Oathkeeper1775

    Oathkeeper1775 Coast Range Well-Known Member

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    There is no "peace time".

    The absence of the Rule of Law has integrated society with thousands and thousands of law-breaking hardened criminals.

    Criminals frequently employ non-attributional (chicken-sh!t) tactics; they hide amongst children and/or under our political correctness umbrella; makes threat identification, aquisition, descrimination, and reduction/destruction, one big "enchilada" for the resilient person(s).

    Unlikely threats from obtuse angles; never relax, watch the avenues of approach, think like the threat as you pass through danger areas. Designate a security person and sectors of resposibility within your group.

    An example would be not allowing your group to be consolidated (within reach) by a "passer-by" asking a question or making a comment.

    Carried by 6 or judged by 12
     
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