These are Hot 9mm loads!

[deadeye]

I usually don't load 9mm. They have been cheap enough not to worry about. But with things the way they are now - I set out today to try out my first handloads for my G19.
The recoil was the most I ever felt in a 9mm.

Blue Dot 7.9 grains
Berry's 124 grain FMJ

I got this recipe straight from Alliant.

Just a heads up - This is a Hot Load!

Just looking in some of my books for Blue Dot info. Notice a couple are for 125g not 124g but you get the idea.

Lyman 47th edition
125gr JSP/rn 6.1g - 8.0g for 895 fps - 1190 fps 1.12 oal

Lee 2nd edition
124gr XTP/JHP 7.0g - 7.9g for 1103 - 1120 fps 1.12 min oal

Lee info included with dies.
125gr FMJ 7.9g - 8.2g for 1190 fps 1.150 min oal

Speer 12 and 15 editions
124gr TMJ/RN 7.1g - 7.9 for 1121 - 1238 fps 1.135 coal

Hornady 11th edition
124g FMJ/RN 4.8g - 6.6g for 900 - 1100 1.15 col
4.8g = 900 fps
5.2g = 950 fps
5.7g = 1000 fps
6.1g = 1050 fps
6.6g = 1100 fps

I use 115gr plated Xtremes for my loads and still only use 7.8gr.

 

[Xmark1]

Just looking in some of my books for Blue Dot info. Notice a couple are for 125g not 124g but you get the idea.

Lyman 47th edition
125gr JSP/rn 6.1g - 8.0g for 895 fps - 1190 fps 1.12 oal

Lee 2nd edition
124gr XTP/JHP 7.0g - 7.9g for 1103 - 1120 fps 1.12 min oal

Lee info included with dies.
125gr FMJ 7.9g - 8.2g for 1190 - 1150 fps

Speer 12 and 15 editions
124gr TMJ/RN 7.1g - 7.9 for 1121 - 1238 fps 1.135 coal

Hornady 11th edition
124g FMJ/RN 4.8g - 6.6g for 900 - 1100 1.15 col
4.8g = 900 fps
5.2g = 950 fps
5.7g = 1000 fps
6.1g = 1050 fps
6.6g = 1100 fps

I use 115gr plated Xtremes for my loads and still only use 7.8gr.

I appreciate the info/backup. Was getting tired of some know it all's talking smack.
My loads were within published limits. And let us not forget SAAMI standards & grace.

Some people contributed a lot of good information also. And to them - Thank You Again!

I have been using Xtreme for .40 & 10mm for plinking, and they perform well. I use XTP or SIG Hollow Point for hunting & Defense rounds.

I used Berry's on the 9mm re-loads because that was the only brand available at time of purchase.

Still, 7.9 is too hot for me, and I will back it down a bit.
Thanks to you, I have many load recipe's to choose from.

Also, since I made this post, I have found my reloading manual. I have verified upper and lower load limits.

I have been reloading for about 15 years, and have reloaded tens of thousands of cartridges without incident.
However, this was the first time I re-loaded 9mm.

 

[deadeye]

I appreciate the info/backup. Was getting tired of some know it all's talking smack.
My loads were within published limits. And let us not forget SAAMI standards & grace.

Some people contributed a lot of good information also. And to them - Thank You Again!

I have been using Xtreme for .40 & 10mm for plinking, and they perform well. I use XTP or SIG Hollow Point for hunting & Defense rounds.

I used Berry's on the 9mm re-loads because that was the only brand available at time of purchase.

Still, 7.9 is too hot for me, and I will back it down a bit.
Thanks to you, I have many load recipe's to choose from.

Also, since I made this post, I have found my reloading manual. I have verified upper and lower load limits.

I have been reloading for about 15 years, and have reloaded tens of thousands of cartridges without incident.
However, this was the first time I re-loaded 9mm.

I saw you have loaded .40/10mm before so 9mm is not much different just make sure the bullet is firm and can not be set back by recoil. I use the Lee factory crimp but many reloaders don't crimp at all. For plinking stuff I usually tend to go middle of the road on charge, just don't make the bone headed mistake of loading so light the slide wont fully actuate. I usually make a small batch and go outside and make sure they function properly but there was that one time......... I now have a 45acp revolver to blow thru a batch of light loads, but hey that was a good reason to get another revolver wasn't it.......

 

[gmerkt]

Bear in mind that plated bullets have a different coefficient of friction than do bullets jacketed with the usual "gilding metal." If that coefficient is higher, pressures will be higher.

I've always figured that plated bullets would be softer than jacketed. Because the plating is thinner than typical jacketed bullet material and the soft lead core is closer to the surface. Therefore, having less friction than a jacketed bullet. BUT: Not all plated bullet products are sized the same. Berry bullets are usually .001 larger in diameter than, say, Xtreme. So this would also be a factor with friction and therefore pressure.

There are some plated bullets sold now that are advertised as having thicker plating, I don't have any science as to how that might stack up against jacketed.

 

[po18guy]

I've always figured that plated bullets would be softer than jacketed. Because the plating is thinner than typical jacketed bullet material and the soft lead core is closer to the surface. Therefore, having less friction than a jacketed bullet. BUT: Not all plated bullet products are sized the same. Berry bullets are usually .001 larger in diameter than, say, Xtreme. So this would also be a factor with friction and therefore pressure.

There are some plated bullets sold now that are advertised as having thicker plating, I don't have any science as to how that might stack up against jacketed.

It's simple enough to calculate:

"The input values for the following formulas:
P = force due to gas pressure on base of bullet
alpha = angle of twist
F_x = bore friction acting against the bullets travel down the bore
F_y = bore friction acting against the bullets twist in the bore
D = The gun's caliber
J = bullets moment of inertia with respect to its central axis parallel to the bore
u = the coefficient of friction between the bullet material and the barrel (Examples: Lead/Blued-Steel, Copper/White-Steel, Jacket-Brass/Stainless-Steel, etc.)
v' = instantaneous derivative of the velocity of the bullet down the bore
w' = instantaneous derivative of the rotational velocity of the bullet in the bore
m = mass of the bullet

The formula for finding alpha if rate of twist is known (Example: (1 twist) / (in 12") ):

alpha = arctan( (pi)*D*( rate of twist ) )

The formula for finding a bullets moment of inertia where k is a constant unique to the bullets shape (or) alternately finding the bullets moment of inertia when i the bullets radius of gyration is known:

J = k*m*( D/2 )^2 = m*i^2

The formula for the instantaneous friction force apposing bullet travel down the bore:

F_x = ( ( 2*u*J*w' ) / ( D*( cos(alpha) - u*sin(alpha) ) ) )

The formula for the instantaneous friction force apposing the bullets twist in the bore:

F_y= ( u*( P - m*v' ) ) / ( sin(alpha) + u*cos(alpha) )

In order to obtain the net energy lost due to bore friction it is necessary to sum the integration of these two formulas for the full length of the barrel. Explicit formulas for P, v', and w' must be calculated with respect to the bullets position within the barrel. For my air-gun analysis this won't be too difficult, but for a gun that runs off gun powder rather then compressed air things get way, way, complicated.
By the way these formulas are built-up from those put forth on page 119 of the 'Oerlikon Pocket Book', published by the Oerlikon Company of cannon fame -- 1981 edition."

Isn't it?

 

[DLS]

It was common practice several decades ago to only publish one MAX load in the material powder manufactures provided. This allowed very tidy sized manuals that provided pretty much as much useful data as we receive from the current 2-inch thick manuals. There was always a caveat posted stating "reduce listed charges and work up".

The Alliant site has in bold print the following just above the "enter here" button that takes you to the data:

USE THIS DATA WITH ALLIANT BRAND POWDERS ONLY.

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.


I happen to like the condensed format and when I go to grab printed load data those condensed versions are typically the ones I go to first. That's not to say I don't like the larger manuals. I have a couple dozen, going back to Speer #4, Lyman manuals from the 50's etc. These larger manuals very useful too, especially for information other than charge weights.

I also like Alliant flake powders as they fill the case better, as others have mentioned. I have never really seen a problem metering these, or extruded powders, you just have to be a bit more focused on technique, at least in my experience.

Blue Dot is a favorite with me too, and yes it can have a flash. I run a .44Mag load that easily makes small beach ball sized flashes at night! Pretty cool "demo" load for newbie shooters. They get a kick out of lighting up the night.

 

[arakboss]

Good Stuff! I did not know that. Thank You for the input!

G19 Gen4

I did inspect the spent cases/primers and saw no signs of overpressure. However, I'm not someone who likes to push the envelope. I'm going to play it safe and just pull the small batch of remaining cartridges, and reload using less charge. I have no need for speed.

It was never my intention to create a hot load. The main purpose of this post, was to highlight my surprise about Alliant posting load data on the internet, and they did not indicate this was the upper limit! It was the ONLY load data given.

I recently bought a new home and am not completely unpacked yet, I seem to have misplaced my re - loading manual. The manual gives me upper and lower limits, and I always start at lower limits.

I am very fond of my hands/etc.!

I have read that pistol cases don't exhibit the same pressure signs as rifle cartridges. Not sure if that is accurate info or not.

 

[ma96782]

I did not know that was a max load. I do now.
Seems wrong to post only a max load.
I have done some research, and found on other forums that people are using 6 to 7 grains. This sounds like a new plan I will follow.

The usual advice is to....

Start low and work your way up.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

I have read that pistol cases don't exhibit the same pressure signs as rifle cartridges. Not sure if that is accurate info or not.

IMHO......READING pistol or rifle cases is like reading tea leaves. Various factors can give false results. So, it's IMHO....not all that useful.

For example.....what's the condition of the primer pocket? How many cycles has the brass already been through. What's the condition of the firearm? Chamber? Headspace? Etc....etc....

Yeah....but it's all I got.

Shootz then.

Roger Dat.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....what da hell is he saying/meaning by....."shootz"?

I'll let Fluffy explain. Start at 9:15

 

[Flopsweat]

Their copper jacketed? What kind of penetration are you trying to achieve?

Just the tip.

 

[Xmark1]

1,500 FPS, FLAT POINT, HOLLOW BASE.

 

[RVTECH]

I did not know that was a max load. I do now.
Seems wrong to post only a max load.

Are you using a manual or the Alliant load data site?

If using the site they only show one load and it is the maximum load. I believe some of the other powder mfg. sites do the same.

I suspect this might be mentioned in their 'warning' page but I have never read it word for word however it would be real easy for them to add 'maximum load' below the 'charge weight' column.

Personally I have never used Blue Dot in 9mm but it seems like a rather slow powder for short cased ammo.