The VA tells OR Vet. he has to turn in his guns or face prison.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by erudne, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. erudne

    The Pie Matrix
    PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing?

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    Feds Take Aim at Decorated Combat Veteran's Gun Rights

    Tim King
    Like other Combat Vets, Pat Kirby has PTSD. The VA says he has to turn in his guns or face prison. This is not a misprint.

    Pat Kirby and Tim King

    (MYRTLE CREEK, OR) - Pat Kirby answered his country's call to arms during the Vietnam War, serving multiple tours, suffering injuries, watching friends die. Today he has a letter from the VA telling him that because his wife takes care of their family finances, he is deemed "incompetent" and for this reason, he has to turn in his guns and relinquish his 2nd Amendment Rights, or face going to prison.
    It's like a bad flashback to the attitudes that led to the creation of Rambo. Veteran discrimination has not been this pronounced in years, it seems the Vietnam Veteran is always asked to take a harder road than those who served both before and after them. Suicide rates of Vietnam Veterans are astronomical, much like their brethren from the current wars. These are all reasons not to humiliate and shame Veterans, of all people, without justified cause.
    After returning from military service in Vietnam, Pat Kirby married his wife, Susan, and had a family. Pat lived what so many call The American Dream.
    It went pretty well, considering that Pat suffers from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) which, according to Dr. Phillip Leveque, who as a Physician treated approximately 1,000 PTSD Veterans at his practice, "Goes hand in hand with multiple combat tours -- years of service with a rifle in your hand."
    Most Americans agree that those who serve their country under the most dangerous conditions, deserve their nation's gratitude. That system of belief is falling to the wayside.

    If for any reason this video is not viewable, go to

    American Legion Returns to Roseburg to Hear Veterans' Health-Care Concerns

    The American Legion, the country’s largest organization of wartime veterans, will return to Roseburg on Feb. 11 to host a second town hall for veterans to discuss the quality of health care they are receiving at the city’s Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) medical center.
    Members of the Legion’s System Worth Saving Task Force last met with local veterans at a Jan. 9 town hall meeting. One major concern expressed by several attendees was the closing of the VA facility’s intensive care unit (ICU).
    “We’ve decided to go back to Roseburg to listen to the specific concerns of patients at their VA facilities,” said Verna Jones, director of the Legion’s Veterans Affairs & Rehabilitation Division. “We especially want to hear about how the loss of VA hospital’s ICU has impacted the quality of veterans health care.”
    The follow-on meeting is scheduled for 7 p.m. on Feb. 11 at American Legion Post 16 on 406 S.E. Oak St. in Roseburg.
    Anyone with concerns about VA health care is encouraged to attend the meeting, especially those who have served in the U.S. military.
    Members of the Legion’s System Worth Saving (SWS) Task Force will facilitate the event. The SWS program was created in 2003 to monitor the quality of health-care at VA medical facilities nationwide.
    For more information on the town hall meeting, contact Ed Lilley at

    As I have detailed in previous reports, elements of the federal government have been spending billions and billions finding ways to cause states to relinquish private information, specifically mental health records, and records for minor drug offenses. The govt. is using the information specifically to deny gun ownership.
    Pat Kirby and his wife Susan are at the forefront of a national event and they are supported by large numbers of well equipped Americans who want to preserve the right to bear arms and the overall rights of Veterans who served their country with distinction, men like Pat Kirby.

    YouTube Giveth, YouTube Taketh Away...

    The first video I produced about Pat Kirby and Susan and their efforts to halt this government seizure of basic rights it is tracks, had just accumulated over 23,000 views, when YouTube pulled it from our site, and then, quite oddly, re-added the video within only half an hour, but when it went back up there were zero views. What kind of games are taking place? Others have pointed to the new video not holding visitor counts, I have been told the number has gone backward.
    So, just be aware that this is taking place, there is no good reason for this to have happened, and it seems likely that the government is playing the non publicly responsive YouTube like a song.
    The video is also going to be loaded on Vimeo, a much more stable site than YouTube, it is sad when political opponents must work in dark ways.

    Feds Tell Veteran He Will Lose 2nd Amendment Rights Because of PTSD

    Feds Are Spending Billions to Help States Avoid Privacy Laws to Ban Firearm Ownership

    I hope as many people as possible make it to the meeting in Roseburg, it is a follow up meeting from a few weeks ago, the last one ended in a disastrous shouting match, representatives of various Oregon senators and politicians were no shows, people were gravely disappointed.
    But this is put on by the American Legion, they are really trying to get to the bottom of some issues and supporting their mission and participating, and helping them help Veterans, is only a good idea.
  2. ocarolan

    Portland, Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    From a legal standpoint, if someone lacks capacity to manage his own affairs, he cannot legally possess a firearm. This is pursuant to 18 USC 922(d).

    Under federal law, anyone who has been formally committed to a mental health facility or adjudicated as a "mental defective" is disqualified from buying and possessing firearms.

    The first prong is fairly self-explanatory, describing people who have been hospitalized by court order. The second is a little more complicated. It describes someone who has been designated by some legal authority — usually a court, but it also could be a board or commission — to be a danger to himself or others, or to lack the mental capacity to manage his or her own affairs. It also describes people found by a court to be incompetent to stand trial, or found in a criminal case to be insane.

    Possibly ORS §166.250 and 426.130 could also apply.
  3. RicInOR

    Washington County
    I aim to misbehave Silver Supporter

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    However .... there are good reasons to have given a spouse a power of attorney that have nothing to do with mental capacity.
    And, in many homes, one person will manage the checkbook for the family. It is a routine thing.

    I know there are those on this board who object to restricting the right to posses a firearm. I think there are a few cases where it makes sense. But if the person is so in need of mental health services that they could not be trusted with a firearm, we need to ask, why are they not in a hospital, under constant observation.

    <broken link removed>

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  4. Martini_Up

    NW USA
    Well-Known Member

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    Not always:

    EXCEPTION to 11. f. NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007: A person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution is not prohibited if: (1) the person was adjudicated or committed by a department or agency of the Federal Government, such as the United States Department of Veteran's Affairs ("VA") (as opposed to a State court, State board, or other lawful State authority); and (2) either: (a) the person's adjudication or commitment for mental incompetency was set-aside or expunged by the adjudicating/committing agency; (b) the person has been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring by the agency; or (c) the person was found by the agency to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that served as the basis of the initial adjudication. Persons who fit this exception should answer "no" to Item 11.f. This exception does not apply to any person who was adjudicated to be not guilty by reason of insanity, or based on lack of mental responsibility, or found incompe- tent to stand trial, in any criminal case or under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
    ocarolan and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Nwcid

    Yakima and N of Spokane
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    I didn't watch the video so maybe it said something different in there.

    I did not see where it said he was under a POA or was unable to manage his affairs. What the written article says is "....telling him that because his wife takes care of their family finances, he is deemed "incompetent"...." I know many people where one spouse takes care of the finances. Does that mean all of those folks are "incompetent" as well?

    Also with a POA it just allows someone else to make decisions on your behalf, that does not mean you are not able to make your own decisions still.

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