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The UN and Obama Versus Gun Owners

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by DAE51D, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. DAE51D

    DAE51D Redmond, WA Member

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    The UN and Obama Versus Gun Owners

    by John Lott Gun owners might not feel besieged right now, but they should be very concerned. Last week the Obama administration announced its support for the UN Small Arms Treaty. This treaty poses real risks for freedom and safety in the United States as well as the rest of the world.
    According to the U.N., guns used in armed conflicts cause 300,000 deaths worldwide every year. Their proposed solution is a simple one. Keep rebels from getting guns by requiring that countries “prevent, combat and eradicate” what those countries define as “the illicit trade in small arms.”

    The UN’s solution isn’t too surprising when one looks at the long list of notorious totalitarian regimes, such as Syria, Cuba, Rwanda, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, and Sierra Leone, which support these “reforms.” But not all insurgencies are “bad.” To ban providing guns to rebels in totalitarian countries is like arguing that there is never anything such as a just war.

    In hindsight, during World War II, should the French or Norwegian resistance movements simply have given up? Surely this would have minimized causalities. But that is hardly a one-time event. What about Afghanis in their fight against the Soviet Union or Nicaraguan rebels fighting communist dictators during the 1980s? Was it wrong to help out? What about totalitarian governments that massacre their citizens? Don’t they have a right to protect themselves?

    Many countries already ban private gun ownership. Rwanda and Sierra Leone are two notable examples. Yet, with more than a million people hacked to death over the last decade-and-a-half, were their citizens better off without guns?

    Political scientist Rudy Rummel estimates that 262 million people were murdered by their own government during the last century -– that is 2.6 million per year. This includes genocide, the murder of people for political reasons, and mass murder. Even if all 300,000 deaths from armed conflicts can be blamed on the small arms trade, an obviously false claim, people have much more to worry about from their governments. Adding the U.N.’s estimated deaths from gun suicides, homicides, and accidents still provides a number that is only a ninth as large.

    Second, the treaty is a backdoor way to get more gun control laws adopted in the US. “After the treaty is approved and it comes into force, you will find out that it has this implication or that implication and it requires the Congress to adopt some measure that restricts ownership of firearms,” Former UN Ambassador John Bolton warns. “The [Obama] administration knows it cannot obtain this kind of legislation purely in a domestic context. … They will use an international agreement as an excuse to get domestically what they couldn’t otherwise.”

    In addition, to keep track of guns, licensing and registration will be pushed, despite their complete failure to trace crime guns in the places in the US that have tried it or Canada. One also just needs to look no further than how Mexican President Felipe Calderon has blamed his country’s crime problems on the sun setting of the US “assault weapons” ban. Somehow semi-automatic guns, essentially deer hunting rifles that have a cosmetic outside that look like AK-47s or other similar weapons, are being painted as military weapons. The same claims now being made for Mexico will be made even more forcefully under the UN treaty.

    Third, gun bans also produce another problem: increased murder rates. UN gun control advocates don’t want to acknowledge that everyplace in the world that we have crime data for has seen that gun bans result in higher murder rates. Americans have seen the increase in murder rates in DC and Chicago after their bans, and the sudden 25 percent drop in DC’s murder rates last year after their ban was removed. But as recent research shows, gun bans have consistently lead to higher murder rates around the world. Even island nations, who can’t blame some neighbors for their supply of guns, have seen increases in violent crime rates.

    The Small Arms Treaty is just a back door way for the Obama administration trying to force through gun control regulations. With the huge standing ovation that House and Senate Democrats recently gave Mexican President Calderon for his advocacy of a new so-called “Assault Weapons Ban,” Americans who care about self-defense have been put on notice. The threats to gun ownership are as real as ever.
     
  2. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Please do further research before assuming that any president can somehow "force" gun control regulations past Congress and the American people.

    Here's a great place to start. :D

    Vigilance is important, but this nonsense is getting very old. I'd suggest a sticky, but the people who keep starting these threads would either ignore it or completely misunderstand it.
     
  3. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Amen. We could start by asking people to refrain from reprinting material they find on right-wing blogs (or left-wing blogs) as though it's real news.
     
  4. Bark

    Bark Oregon Member

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    +1 on the above statement....I'm afraid we will be getting bombarded with these "panic" messages until this election cycle has played out.
     
  5. Minisocks

    Minisocks Portland Member

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    Is there a link to this story on anything other than questionable news sites? I mean, really, biggovernment.com? A site run by Breit Bart, Matt Drudge's mini-me. The only reference I could find—in non-partisan and very obviously biased sites—to anything remotely like this is the UN Arms Trade Treaty. Is that what we're supposed to be discussing?

    If not, link to original documents plz

    e:f;b
     
  6. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    martial law, then he can sign any treaty he wants and it becomes law. That would bypass the Senate and House as well as the population. That would also allow UN troops to enforce their laws on US citizens.

    Stock up now, it's going to get worse!

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC member
    SWWAC member
     
  7. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I challenge anyone to show me fresh credible information that is newer than Nov of 2009 on this story.

    This story gets reposted once a week for the last year and there is never anything new, it's just rehash upon rehash of something that hasn't happened.
     
  8. Minisocks

    Minisocks Portland Member

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    This is very likely to happen.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Jefferson County, Wa Member

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    Is the sky falling or not?
     
  10. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    I just think it's funny to watch y'all go through the same ridiculous "martial law" scares that the liberals did for 8 years.
     
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Jefferson County, Wa Member

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    I've have noticed a trend ZachS, when Clinton was president all the rage on rightwing/patriot/gun rights sites was a FEMA/relocation/re-education camps for dissidents. Same thing for the left/commie/green when Bush was president.
    And now the concentration camps are back ready to admit the right now that a left is the president.:laugh:
     
  12. PosterGuy

    PosterGuy Hillsboro Member

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    Well, I heard that Obama has the Ark of the Covenant and is going to melt off the faces of all that oppose him. Seriously, I heard it from a guy who knows a guy who's barber's son is an assistant grounds keeper at the White House.
     
  13. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Yeah? Well, I heard it from Lou Dobbs! :laugh: :laugh:
     
  14. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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  15. OcelotZ3

    OcelotZ3 Corvallis Active Member

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    There was a guy at the previous place I worked at who insisted that Clinton would declare martial law and refuse to leave office. I asked him if he was kidding and he said no, he REALLY believed it.

    I should have left some tinfoil on his chair.
     
  16. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It is obvious that people want to talk on this subject, so my question is why the thread on the subject keeps getting closed.
    More curiosity..............................
     
  17. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Because threads on this subject invariably result in Trlsmn (or whoever manages to chime in first) pointing out the falsehood of this assertion. Following that, they quickly devolve: first, into a boring rehash of the same "debate" that keeps happening, and second, into a bunch of sophomoric humor.


    Point being, there are enough threads on new and unique topics that we shouldn't have to waste our sophomoric humor on this 'gun ban treaty' drivel.
    :bluelaugh:
     
  18. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    That pretty much sums it up. We usually let it go until it breaks down to off topic battles of Bush vs Obama and then it gets closed.

    What happens with these things is someone invariably gets an urgent group batch email stating it as the latest atrocity and that person posts it up not knowing that the same story has been posted once a week for the past year.

    BTW when a friend or new friend sends me any batch urgent notices by email I email back asking them to not send me email that is not personally for me from them. You can almost count down the days from the time a new person gets on the net before they will send an urgent "Net" warning to their 100 closest friends. :laugh:
     
  19. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    UN troops have been soooooo successful everywhere else they have gone. I am sure that a bunch of Europeans in blue helmets, commanded by a committe of nations that seldom agree on anything and have lacked the spine to take action on the most cut and dried international issues will just walk all over one of the most armed and independent nations in the world.
     
  20. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Well it could be left for people that want to view and no one is forced to go to any thread are they.
    Seems like more a game to a few to get in there blast it and then close it.
    Why not just let it go and ignore it. It will only come up again and again and again. Just shuting down a thread kind of reminds me of book burning <G> To me, shutting down threads that criticize pro gun organizations like the NRA and GOA are more deserving of censorship. After all this is supposed to be a pro 2nd Amendment forum, is it not???? or is it not?????