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1) "Also that Stalin likely killed more civilians than the Nazis."
Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more Soviet citizens than Schicklgruber was. Ref. Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder.
2) "Plus, if they'd been successful in developing atomic weapons, they literally could have captured the world."
Germany was nowhere close to developing The Bomb. The captured German nuclear physicists still weren't even sure that it was feasible, and thought they were in line for high paid jobs with the Allies.
 
A huge amount of what we Americans are taught and believe about WW2 is total Bu***crap. It's a flat out lie. One which out "media" serves and propagates. I served. My father served as well, a much nastier environment for him in WW2, or worst of all my grandfather was in the trenches in WW1. We've been fed lies. So so many lies. Movies help propagate those lies. Books do as well, but with books, you can pause and reflect, go look it up on other reference works. I would recommend that anyone who wants to start to grasp what the truth is read and examine some solid history books:


The book "Operation Snow" names the worst Traitor ever. No not Benedict Arnold, as bad as that was. No, this was 1000 to a million times worse, and you've likely never heard of the traitor who worked for President Roosevelt. If you are not aware, isn't it time you familiarize yourself? Harry Dexter White (aka Weiss) worked in the Roosevelt administration. A USSR operative (not a spy, but someone working directly for the USSR but being paid by the US government. Stalin and the USSR Secret police ordered White with getting the US into war with Japan and that he did. The bs you read about Japan being the warmongering aggressors is not true. Media still pitch this lie to this day. The US made Pearl Harbor occur, and the Secret Police files that came out of the USSR in 1995 after the Soviet Union fell provides the truth and facts about it. The second in charge of the NKVD ran the traitor White and admitted that it was all so horrifyingly true. WW2 was a needless war caused by the Soviet Union and nudged along by a few traitors in the Roosevelt administration.


There are 3 other hugely significantly worthwhile books that are different from the false conventional historical belief taught in American schools as truth, yet these significant works all seem to agree with each other. Here's the first one, you can figure out the other 21. Google on Amazon "Suvorov" for the 2nd one.

"Freedom Betrayed" by ex-President Herbert Hoover. Hoover saw that the traitors in the Roosevelt administration were working hard to get American into an unnecessary war via USSR agents embedded into the US government. He didn't understand exactly what was occurring but he knew it was horrifically wrong and traitorous on many levels. It was literally Hoover's life's work to work uncovering the traitorous actions he and his team found and to document it. He realized that his angry emotional angry first draft was overly wrought and chose to refine it which he did for the rest of his life. Nothing was left in his book that was not double sourced, and he had a full time team working on gathering facts, reworking and re-editing the manuscript for so many years. It is interesting that if you do a copy - paste to the internet on most of the duplicitous characters he roots out as traitors or involved in traitorous activities, they are jewish. If you copy-paste and source anyone who is supportive of those traitorous persons actions or ignores them in a historical work, they are almost always also jewish as well. I don't know why that is- but it is so.


Or don't read direct sourced history, ignore the truth and get your info from the same lying news sources that try and fill your head with lies daily: It's real, this is a small sample of what we are all getting.

I can bring much much more, but start with this, allow your mind to open, and continue to your own research. You won't get it from movies but from original sourced history books - there are "free speech" sites online for now, as hard as it is to read peoples nasty little thoughts about others, look into those places. Best to all
Some incredibly wild conspiracy stuff going on here. Really gotta hand it to this dexter white guy who apparently goaded the Japanese into invading China then tricked the US into embargoing Japan after they violated americas one clause for continuing to trade with them. Those Russians sure are clever.
 
Some incredibly wild conspiracy stuff going on here. Really gotta hand it to this dexter white guy who apparently goaded the Japanese into invading China then tricked the US into embargoing Japan after they violated americas one clause for continuing to trade with them. Those Russians sure are clever.
Yep, consider this one irrefutable idea. Both the USSR and Germany invaded Poland. That event was what caused Britain and France to declare war on Germany. Yet Russia was never attacked. Why is that? They were an ally of Germany at that time and they kept the half of Poland they had subjugated. Might I suggest that you open your mind and consider it, and then read former President Hoovers lifes work on the subject, the book called: "Freedom Betrayed".

Some more wild conspiracy stuff for you to consider. When the USSR were an ally of Germany, no one in the west declared war when they invaded Finland, nor when they invaded Romania/Bessarbia, Lithuania, etc etc.

Why?
 
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Yep, consider this one irrefutable idea. Both the USSR and Germany invaded Poland. That event was what caused Britain and France to declare war on Germany. Yet Russia was never attacked. Why is that? They were an ally of Germany at that time and they kept the half of Poland they had subjugated. Might I suggest that you open your mind and consider it, and then read former President Hoovers lifes work on the subject, the book called: "Freedom Betrayed".

Some more wild conspiracy stuff for you to consider. When the USSR were an ally of Germany, no one in the west declared war when they invaded Finland, nor when they invaded Romania/Bessarbia, Lithuania, etc etc.

Why?
It's a common misconception among those who are poorly studied about the conflict to think that germany and the USSR were allied at the time of the partition of Poland. What they had signed was a non aggression pact since both men knew there would be a violent struggle to the death in the near future that neither felt ready for in 1939 (literally outlined in mein kampf). If you are going to be in the business of calling non aggression pacts alliances, you would then have to explain that the French were allied to the nazis from 1938 until the invasion of Poland. (http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/Franco-German-Non-Aggression-Treaty-pdf)
 
It's a common misconception among those who are poorly studied about the conflict to think that germany and the USSR were allied at the time of the partition of Poland. What they had signed was a non aggression pact since both men knew there would be a violent struggle to the death in the near future that neither felt ready for in 1939 (literally outlined in mein kampf). If you are going to be in the business of calling non aggression pacts alliances, you would then have to explain that the French were allied to the nazis from 1938 until the invasion of Poland. (http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/Franco-German-Non-Aggression-Treaty-pdf
Are you unable to have a conversation without attempting to denigrate the other view? It's probably also "a common misconception among those who are poorly studied about the conflict to believe that it was only a non-aggression pact. You can call the sky pink, but if it is blue that doesn't change anything. Lets examine your assertion that all they had was a non-aggression pack shall we?

*German pilots were trained in and sometimes by the USSR. It was extensive military exchanges. See: https://www.historynet.com/devils-bargain-germany-and-russia-before-wwii.htm But I can see how the uneducated could call the USSR helping to secretly train Germanys
*They agreed to go to war together against Poland. Which you sound like you may not be aware of, but they did.
*They had an extensive and substantial trade pact which lasted right up until Stalin decided to attack a weakened Germany and sweep all of Europe. (Fortunately for a free Britain, *Germany got the drop on them by a couple of weeks.)

Even wiki has that one correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–Soviet_economic_relations_(1934–1941)

QUOTE: "the countries expanded their economic relationship by entering into a Trade and Credit agreement whereby the Soviet Union sent critical raw materials to Germany in exchange for weapons, military technology and civilian machinery. That deal accompanied the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, which contained secret protocols dividing central Europe between them, after which both Nazi forces and Soviet forces invaded territories listed within their "spheres of influence".

The countries later further expanded their economic relationship with a larger commercial agreement in February 1940. Thereafter, Germany received significant amounts of critical raw materials necessary for its future war efforts, such as petroleum, grain, rubber and manganese, while sending weapons, technology and manufacturing machinery to the Soviet Union. After unresolved negotiations regarding a potential Soviet entry into the Axis Pact, the two governments settled several disputes and further expanded their economic dealings with the January 1941 German–Soviet Border and Commercial Agreement."
I guess you could call that a non-aggression pact. Sort of like the US had a "non-aggression pact" with England. I'm with you. BTW, when you get done reading up on the real facts with President Hoovers life's work on the subject noted above, another worthy and shocking read, for those "poorly read" like yourself about the conflict, is: "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" by Viktor Suvorov. One of only 2 USSR GRU agents who defected to the west, Suvorov explains in minute and factual detail why Germany had to attack USSR as a defensive move. At the end you'll say: "Ahaahaha! THAT EXPLAINS IT!" It puts a craploads of pieces into the puzzle that were missing previously and gives us a much better picture late in the game. As do the Verona transcripts.

Regards to you sir, I apologize for the potential backhanded slams up there, clearly you are well read. I couldn't resist hitting the ball back over the net. Please, read either of those books before you insult me again, I'd take it much better if you do.
 
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Are you unable to have a conversation without attempting to denigrate the other view? It's probably also "a common misconception among those who are poorly studied about the conflict to believe that it was only a non-aggression pact. You can call the sky pink, but if it is blue that doesn't change anything. Lets examine your assertion that all they had was a non-aggression pack shall we?

*German pilots were trained in and sometimes by the USSR. It was extensive military exchanges. See: https://www.historynet.com/devils-bargain-germany-and-russia-before-wwii.htm But I can see how the uneducated could call the USSR helping to secretly train Germanys
*They agreed to go to war together against Poland. Which you sound like you may not be aware of, but they did.
*They had an extensive and substantial trade pact which lasted right up until Stalin decided to attack a weakened Germany and sweep all of Europe. (Fortunately for a free Britain, *Germany got the drop on them by a couple of weeks.)

Even wiki has that one correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–Soviet_economic_relations_(1934–1941)


I guess you could call that a non-aggression pact. Sort of like the US had a "non-aggression pact" with England. I'm with you. BTW, when you get done reading up on the real facts with President Hoovers life's work on the subject noted above, another worthy and shocking read, for those "poorly read" like yourself about the conflict, is: "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" by Viktor Suvorov. One of only 2 USSR GRU agents who defected to the west, Suvorov explains in minute and factual detail why Germany had to attack USSR as a defensive move. At the end you'll say: "Ahaahaha! THAT EXPLAINS IT!" It puts a craploads of pieces into the puzzle that were missing previously and gives us a much better picture late in the game. As do the Verona transcripts.

Regards to you sir, I apologize for the potential backhanded slams up there, clearly you are well read. I couldn't resist hitting the ball back over the net. Please, read either of those books before you insult me again, I'd take it much better if you do.
Oh boy! Victor suvorov! The guy who uncritically parrots the ol Keitel excuse of "we had to attack the Russians because they were gonna attack us! Nevermind that their armies were at least 2-3 years out from even being able to do so, and that their armies that were on the brink of invading were staggered in defensive echelons. It was all a communist trick!"

As long as we're uncritically giving credence to crank, discredited hagiographers. Should we also turn to David Irving for the real story of the Holocaust? How about any Japanese nationalist for the true story of the greater east Asia co prosperity sphere?

You are still unable to provide even scant evidence that the soviets, supposed German allies, provided men or material for their invasions of the west, balkans, and Scandinavia. Considering all the other German allies assisted in these invasions in one way or another, surely the Russians joined them? Is trading what denotes an alliance? Does that mean that American corporations like IBM were allied with the nazis?

 
Oh boy! Victor suvorov! The guy who uncritically parrots the ol Keitel excuse of "we had to attack the Russians because they were gonna attack us! Nevermind that their armies were at least 2-3 years out from even being able to do so, and that their armies that were on the brink of invading were staggered in defensive echelons. It was all a communist trick!"

As long as we're uncritically giving credence to crank, discredited hagiographers. Should we also turn to David Irving for the real story of the Holocaust? How about any Japanese nationalist for the true story of the greater east Asia co prosperity sphere?

You are still unable to provide even scant evidence that the soviets, supposed German allies, provided men or material for their invasions of the west, balkans, and Scandinavia. Considering all the other German allies assisted in these invasions in one way or another, surely the Russians joined them? Is trading what denotes an alliance? Does that mean that American corporations like IBM were allied with the nazis?

What? I'm "unable to provide even scant evident that the soviets provided men and material those countries"? Don't be silly, try reading the link. I suspect that you are only reading the last couple of sentences of my posts but regardless, it seems pointless to discuss this with you since your mind is so closed to actual facts, and your rebuttals avoid or misstate my points. So I'm out, you win. Clearly you know everything already. :) Take care sir.

To anyone else, these 3 noted are great books and worthy reads if you are a student of history.

1st) Operation Snow - Koster
2nd) Freedom Betrayed - Herbert Hoover
3rd) The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II - Viktor Suvorov
 
Addendum:
3) The Germans had a kill ratio of 15:1 in Russia. Normally this would mean you win, but not with a clown like Schicklgruber in charge. From about '41 on he was being shot up with morphine and Pervitin (speed), and later Eukodal (a synthetic opioid). Not a combo known for causing clear thinking.
 
Addendum:
3) The Germans had a kill ratio of 15:1 in Russia. Normally this would mean you win, but not with a clown like Schicklgruber in charge. From about '41 on he was being shot up with morphine and Pervitin (speed), and later Eukodal (a synthetic opioid). Not a combo known for causing clear thinking.
That and there were plenty more Russians Stalin was ready to send into the meat grinder.
 
True. The scene in Enemy at the Gates where they hand out 5-rd clips while the heavy Maxim guns are being readied and tell them pick up a rifle from a dead man is historically accurate.
Schicklgruber completely refused to believe the massive disparity in resources between the Soviets and the Reich.
 
I think people started calling cat food dinner bait.

True. The scene in Enemy at the Gates where they hand out 5-rd clips while the heavy Maxim guns are being readied and tell them pick up a rifle from a dead man is historically accurate.
Schicklgruber completely refused to believe the massive disparity in resources between the Soviets and the Reich.
The 3rd link above is written by a (former) Soviet Agent who studied this very issue extensively before he defected, and explains why the Germans were forced into attacking their "ally". Of course, in the real version, Jude Law doesn't star...so it is real, not pretend. But it is an excellent work and it factually fills in many gaps in our belief and knowledge of what occurred.
 
While conducting a search for : AZHEV
I ran across this one. Plenty of Russian comments about the movie. I hope it's a good one.

A more "Westernized" view of the Eastern Front.


Aloha, Mark
 
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