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The Real Cause of Violence with Guns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by ZigZagZeke, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    In the late 1960's we dismantled our state mental health treatment systems due to concerns about patient rights and the cost of running them. Instead we relied on "community based" treatment, which usually meant returning dangerously crazy people to their families with prescriptions for psychotropic drugs. Here's the result...

    [video]http://www.zzzeke.com/sourceofgunviolence.mp4[/video]
     
  2. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    This is so true. It also has a lot to do with the increased homelessness we see now. Although, I think most of this occurred later than the 60s, probably the 80s I think The groundwork was certainly laid during the 60s....
     
    mosinguy1, jfw, kumabear17 and 3 others like this.
  3. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    It took a few years for the "community based treatment" system to collapse.
     
  4. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Real Cause of Violence with Guns...

    The majority of gun violence comes from people who are mean, ruthless and selfish. There are some crazy people for sure, but the majority of the violence comes from bad guys not crazy guys.

    All the mental health laws in the world will never stop the bad guys from doing bad things. Our freedoms to protect ourselves will help stop them. The laws that are already on the books will help stop them if they are strictly enforced.
     
  5. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    The gun violence that is fueling the present political situation is the direct result of the failure of our mental health systems. The vast majority of all other gun deaths are suicides (also a mental health issue), police shootings, justifiable self-defense, voluntary participation (gang bangers), and accidents.
     
  6. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Edit...It could be what they are pushing, but I think there is a much bigger problem that drugs or new laws, rules and regulations aint gonna fix.

    The Bad guys.
     
  7. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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  8. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Yep & you will not seeit on the Lame stream media either, just school shooting now.
     
  9. zdogk9

    zdogk9 Pacific County New Member

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    "The majority of gun violence comes from people who are mean, ruthless and selfish"
    You forgot stupid, the smart ones become politicians.
     
  10. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    So, that is the line they are feeding for closing the MHF's now? Hum...Want to know what the real reason was? There was this guy, forgot his name, but it should be easy to find...Anyway, he got a bunch of federal money (7 Figures) to conduct a study of mental health treatment, and to research the "outpatient" idea. Well, like a lot of bad science these days, this guy got the "Q" that what was wanted was justification for closing a lot of MHF and the politicos needed a "study" to back them up saying that "outpatient" treatment was better than the present (at the time) system of MHF. (Oh, why do I know about this? My sister was a microbiologist at Western State Hospital in Sedro-Woolley, WA at the time)

    Anyway, he who pays teh piper, gets to call the results of the "research". Yep, the guy wrote up what they wanted, and never left his office...all his research was made up. Proof, he got to spend some time in the Federal Pen for fraud for this "research".

    However, His "research" wasa exactly what the states wanted as an excuse to save the state's money by closing all of those MHFs. Debunked, or not, the states acted on the "research" because it was what they wanted...
     
  11. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    So, that is the line they are feeding for closing the MHF's now? Hum...Want to know what the real reason was? There was this guy, forgot his name, but it should be easy to find...Anyway, he got a bunch of federal money (7 Figures) to conduct a study of mental health treatment, and to research the "outpatient" idea. Well, like a lot of bad science these days, this guy got the "Q" that what was wanted was justification for closing a lot of MHF and the politicos needed a "study" to back them up saying that "outpatient" treatment was better than the present (at the time) system of MHF. (Oh, why do I know about this? My sister was a microbiologist at Western State Hospital in Sedro-Woolley, WA at the time)

    Anyway, he who pays teh piper, gets to call the results of the "research". Yep, the guy wrote up what they wanted, and never left his office...all his research was made up. Proof, he got to spend some time in the Federal Pen for fraud for this "research".

    However, His "research" wasa exactly what the states wanted as an excuse to save the state's money by closing all of those MHFs. Debunked, or not, the states acted on the "research" because it was what they wanted...
     
  12. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    The Right wanted to close the mental hospitals because they figured they could trim budgets that way. The Left played right into it (as usual) by advocating for "patients' rights" and trumpeting real and imagined abuses in those hospitals. What we end up with is dangerous people roaming the streets.
     
    chemist and (deleted member) like this.
  13. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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    chemist and (deleted member) like this.
  14. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    While this is a problem, the main violence problem today is prohibition (read "the war on drugs") If the market was able to respond to the demand for MJ or anything else, the price would fall, and the gangs source of incxome would disappear. The reason the gangs are such a problem is exactly the same as when the 18th amendment was passed...illegal booze became very valuable, and instead of the state taking in income from taxes, teh state was spending money chasing 2 bit crooks, that were becoming very wealthy selling rot gut at premium prices. The war on drugs has done exactly the same thing...people that do not care what the law is are making a lot of money peddling cheap goods at very high prices...It is this huge profit margin that fuels the gangs, and the gang wars.

    The war on drugs has another benifit for the people who would control everything you do, and tax it if possible...(the politicos) It creats an "enemy" that deflects critisism from them as they squeeze your freedoms until you have no freedom. To those that don't understand economic theory, inflation is a tax on everyone that weighs heavier on savers than spenders...unfortunately, savers are the ones that fund economic activity....if you want to see the "perfect" example of what happens when you spend more than you bring in, for an extended period of time...study Germany in the 1920's.
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Soylent Green... Is the answer.
     
  16. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Works great for sinking fuel from on top of the water.
     
  17. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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  18. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    I thought the politicos just watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" for research.
     
  19. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    There are bad guys and we have the federal administration to prove it.
     
  20. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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