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The signature gatherers probably don't care about the initiative. They are getting signatures for car tabs and grocery tax at the same time. You say no to one they ask about another. It is a moot point trying to talk to them.
If you can be out there or pass them by try engaging the people signing. Ask them do they know what exactly is in the I-1639 measure. State a few facts and move on.
Do something.
 
The signature gatherers probably don't care about the initiative. They are getting signatures for car tabs and grocery tax at the same time. You say no to one they ask about another. It is a moot point trying to talk to them.
If you can be out there or pass them by try engaging the people signing. Ask them do they know what exactly is in the I-1639 measure. State a few facts and move on.
Do something.

Indeed, (however there were no 'customers' at the table the two times I passed by).

That being the case, if they're already at 271K+:eek::eek: signatures on 1639 (which I'd like to get more confirmation on), engaging them at this point is probably even more moot and the task at hand will be spreading the word as far and wide as possible until the ballot.

Every gun and sporting goods shop, range, pro-2A business, etc. should be spreading the word on what 1639 entails, and how easy it is cast your vote.

There was one of them signature gathering people outside of Fred Meyers in Issaquah yesterday.

Were there people signing?

BOSS
 
They probably do have 271k signatures by now. They are doing it from Bellingham on down to Vancouver unopposed. We know it will make the ballot. Hopefully NRA, GOA and SAF will join forces on this issue. We also need to join forces and get the information out on this misleading measure.
 
They probably do have 271k signatures by now. They are doing it from Bellingham on down to Vancouver unopposed. We know it will make the ballot. Hopefully NRA, GOA and SAF will join forces on this issue. We also need to join forces and get the information out on this misleading measure.

I have no idea how long it 'normally' takes to get that number of signatures...it obviously depends on the number of gatherer's working and where...but that seems like a lot of signatures in ~10 days. What's that, like 27,000+ signatures a day? I dunno.:confused:

Boss
 
I talked to the lady. She said they were at 271/275k needed. Can anyone verify this? If so this is bad news .

She wouldn't tell me how much she was being paid. Seemed like a pretty trashy lady.

They probably do have 271k signatures by now. They are doing it from Bellingham on down to Vancouver unopposed. We know it will make the ballot.
Please don't be gullible and fall for an obviously made-up-on-the-spot BS figure. I am very certain the individual signature gatherers have no idea how many total signatures have been gathered so far. And definitely do not roll over and give up like that.

For reference, I-594 was filed in early June and they announced they had the necessary signatures in October. You don't really believe they managed to get even more signatures in less than 10 days for what it took the UBC initiative 4 months to do, do you? Especially when UBCs have wider support than anything "assault weapon" related. It is pretty much physically impossible to reach ~10% of the voting population, and get them all to sign, in that amount of time just by posting up somewhere and hoping people wander by. The number of people, for visualization purposes, they are saying they randomly encountered would be more than 10x the 4th of July crowd at Gas Works Park, assuming similar voting margins to I-594, and discounting non-voters like minors. Not possible in less than 10 days unless they had an army of 10,000 going door-to-door.

And no they are not everywhere unopposed. I checked twice down here in East Vancouver, and saw no one posted at the fairly busy Fred Meyer and Walmart on 164th and 192nd Aves respectively, as well as no one at the Vancouver Mall. Do not roll over. Do not assume they already have it in the bag. If they are at a Kroger store (Fred Meyer, QFC, etc.) complain to management that it is against company policy and disruptive to shoppers. Same with Safeway.

Engage would-be-signers. Challenge their perceptions. Show them a picture of a tube fed .22 rifle with a traditional wooden stock, and ask them if they think that is an "assault rifle" because that's what this initiative would classify them as. Tell them that even CA, NY, etc. have no laws against them, and even places like the UK and Australia don't have any special restrictions on them (besides those they have on all firearms). I was even prepared with a dummy .22LR and a .308 for contrast, ready to describe the former as a "youth and Olympic target practice round", and the latter as a "typical medium-game hunting round". For good measure I had a .223 dummy as backup in case someone asked about the "super deadly AR-15 bullets", and compare it to the .308, telling them that it is in fact illegal to hunt most game animals in WA with it due to the .223/5.56 being too small. These people have no idea about anything firearms beyond what they read in the MSM, and having actual visualizations, especially in person, can be a real eye-opener for them.
 
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Thanks for the math lesson. Would be nice that they wouldn't be able to gather so quickly.
I got into a little heated debate with one petition gatherer at Chucks produce on hwy 99. Wouldn't answer any questions. just pointed at the petitions printed points. At least while I was there a few people didn't sign. Didn't see anyone at Wal-Mart. I'm sure they move around.
When time permits I plan on printing out the information from I1639.com, in a larger pdf format at Fedex. Think 2ft x 4ft poster so people can readily look it over. Would have to piece it together on a poster board.
Should be ok to stand in front of stores with a sign.
 
My last encounter with a signature gatherer was 6-10-18,while waiting for a ferry at Kingston. He didn't have a readable copy of I 1639, so I had to decline his request. He did have a copy of the sales tax on food
bill, had to pass on that one also !
 
My last encounter with a signature gatherer was 6-10-18,while waiting for a ferry at Kingston. He didn't have a readable copy of I 1639, so I had to decline his request. He did have a copy of the sales tax on food
bill, had to pass on that one also !
Pretty sure it's a legal requirement to have a full copy of the text of an initiative on hand for any signature gathering. If he did not, then those signatures should be legally invalid. Not sure how to go reporting that though, not any straightforward information on the secretary of state website.
 
By law, a true copy of the initiative MUST BE available to read. You should have documented & reported it.
I'm saying again, write letters to EVERYONE and speak out.

Dan
 
I'm from Oregon so I have a few questions on I637 and I639.

I637 makes it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to buy any type of firearm?

Then I639 does the same thing but specifically adds semi autos(is this in ase I637 fails?). Is the semi auto ban just for those under 21 or for all adults? All adults would also require firearms training and a 10 day waiting period and a yearly check to make sure you're allowed to own a gun?

Here's some text in the initiative..
(30) "Semiautomatic assault rifle" means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

Then there's this:

WARNING: YOU MAY FACE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION IF YOU STORE OR LEAVE AN UNSECURED FIREARM WHERE A PERSON WHO IS PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING FIREARMS CAN AND DOES OBTAIN POSSESSION. [3]

If someone breaks into your house they're already in a secured place they're prohibited to be. Then you have to pay a fine for not having you're firearms secured. Isn't that what door, window locks and security systems are for?

"Under the measure, violators would be guilty of a class 1 civil infraction and could be fined up to $250."

I've seen videos of gun safes that can be pried open in under 20 minutes. This would be like an insurance company requiring you to put all your valuables in a vault before you left your secured house or they wouldn't pay out to replace the items.
 
<broken link removed>, although one can't say for sure, I rather doubt 1637 will get the signatures required. 1639 is another matter. I believe it has at least $2,390,134.50 dollars for it's paid signature gatherers vs $8,487.00 from Phil Watson & Alan Gottlieb. (per PDC)
& yes, I do believe you're correct in understanding the premise of a weapon being stolen from your residence/abode.

And this was sent to the WEA...(Washington Education Association ) This is the organization 'educating' our kids.

I can not believe the garbage, as below, coming from your organization. I would have thought that as educators, you were capable of reading and understanding the English language. Apparently, some persons in your organization lack that capability.
Why is it you fail to understand it's people violence and not gun violence? By "your premise of gun violence", one should assume when a drunk driver kills another human being with an automobile then it's car violence? Simply amazing..
By the way,
  1. There's NOTHING in I-1639 that makes anyone any safer. Try reviewing the I-594 prosecution statistics to make the public "safe".
  2. There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault rifle
(Quote) At its June meeting, the WEA Board of Directors voted to support I-1639, an initiative to reduce gun violence in our state. Initiative 1639 addresses many of the root causes of recent mass shooting tragedies by raising the age to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles to 21, creating an enhanced background check similar to what is required for handguns, and enacting a 10-day waiting period.
 
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I'm just speaking from a probabilistic viewpoint here, with no real data to go off, but the odds are actually stacked against the petition with only 30 days to gather ~300k signatures (including a margin for invalid signatures). That would require 100 locations to gather 100 signatures each, every single day. While they may manage this for the first week or so, this will drop off quickly if you stay at the same locations, as you will start to encounter mostly repeat visitors (e.g. people that go shopping at that store once a week). However, there is one critical point that comes before the July 7th deadline...

4th of July celebrations are probably going to be their best chance at pushing over the top. Tens of thousands of densely packed people in dozens of gatherings around the state with relatively few access points, making it easy to reach a lot of people in just a few locations in a small time period.

In this situation, it would seem like the best possible solution is to simply make them waste as much time as possible. People are there to enjoy the fireworks, not stand for hours in line to sign something. Cause delays by things like encouraging people to read all the information available, even if it's just the propaganda bullet points the signature gatherers have. Any amount of hesitation adds up when you're talking about so many people.

For instance, at the Gas Works Park festival there's about 40,000 people there each year. If we estimate that perhaps 1/4 of them are minors, and 2/3 of the remainder are willing to sign (I-594 had ~60% of the vote), that's 20,000 potential signers. If each of them takes an average of 10 seconds to sign, we're talking over 55 hours to get through that many people (which people are obviously not going to wait for). There will probably be multiple gatherers trying to get a piece of that billionaire donation pie, which will greatly increase the rate of signings, so we will need to be proactive in limiting them to getting only a few thousand instead of the tens of thousands they potentially stand to gain.
 
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SAF, CCRKBA WARN I-1639 SPONSORS THAT 'UNREADABLE' PETITIONS VIOLATE LAW

BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation and Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms today warned sponsors of anti-gun Initiative 1639 via a demand letter that their campaign "is utilizing unreadable petitions in violation" of state law, and demanded that this be corrected to "conform to the legal requirements."
Olympia attorney Shawn Newman, writing on behalf of the two Bellevue-based organizations, noted, "The petitions for I-1639 have the proposed measure printed on the back of the sheets in such fine print as to be unreadable… Use of fine print is unconscionable."
State law mandates that initiative petitions "have a readable, full, true, and correct copy of the proposed measure printed on the reverse side of the petition," Newman's letter warns.
"In the short time that I-1639 petitions have been in circulation," said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb, "SAF and CCRKBA have been contacted by several people who could not read the initiative language. I've always been warned to read the small print before signing anything. I-1639, as it appears on the back of each petition, is all small print. That should tell voters something about its content."
According to Newman's letter, "Obviously, due to the microscopic maze of fine print used by the initiative sponsors to disguise the actual language of the initiative on the back of their petitions, voters cannot be fully informed." He cautioned I-1639 sponsors that having their paid signature gatherers tell voters to "read it online" is "no substitute for following the law." Newman suggested reprinting the petitions, and contact voters who have already signed to allow them the opportunity to sign a readable copy of the measure.
"We would prefer that you become compliant with the law," Newman wrote, "but if you choose to continue in this illegal manner, we will be forced to litigate this matter."
Copies of the letter were sent to Secretary of State's office, the Washington State Attorney General, and "many other interested parties to ensure that everyone has been notified of the fundamental problem with your petitions."
The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.
 
20180619_180056.jpg

Time to send SAF another donation!
 
Maybe @bolus or @DuneHopper can she'd some light on a question..... Are these people 1099'd or how does that work?? Sounds like a person could make some good money doing this....
I wonder who is bankrolling them?? :rolleyes:

In oregon there are signature gathering companies. I dont know how much they get paid but the couple that I talked to was around minimum wage. $10 a signature seems crazy. IP 44 in Oregon hired Direct Action Partners to do their signature gathering and they have been paid $30,000 so far. To get the 88,000 signatures that would be at least $880,000 plus all the overhead? I really doubt a signature gathering company makes a million or more per IP.

You hire the company, pay them a set fee for x-many signatures, they handle the background checks etc. I'm sure they hire their signature gatherers at minimum wage. Not like you need a college degree to erode your democracy.

Just like someone who works for the Mafia, they are pressured heavily and risk getting black listed if they do work on something a politician does not like.

All seven companies were paid off in Oregon to not work with our recall petition.

Does Washington have something like ORESTAR in oregon that publicly lists every contribution and expenditure?
 

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