Washington the public safety and semiautomatic assault rifle act

[Diamondback]

Turd's personal Enemies List? Unknown what that is. The one thing I do know is I have a tendacy to really tick my elected officials off. I'm not above calling them out for what they are and telling them what I think of their actions. They're MY EMPLOYEE! I have to (unfortunately) keep reminding them of that. I hope everyother voter does the same.

Dan

I'm just saying that F***face Ferg has a very thin skin and a long memory for personal grudges against those who dare challenge him, however small-fry we may be.

 

[DuneHopper]

When will these people learn... nothing they say is true " like never"

Global warming killed me. Then climate change killed me. Then guns snuck into my house and rap3d me and killed me. Then trump killed me. Then tax cuts killed me. Then net neutrality killed me( its a month old now and no one died). Then the russians killed me. Then nazis killed me. Then antifa actually burnt down my Starbucks......
I mean come on now...The stack is so high of bubblegum that they say will happen and never does. I mean like never ever..........its now nearing 3 years old and SB941 URGENT OREGON LAW, equals how many convictions ? " ZERO "

I live in what must be the highest per population percentage in Oregon who owns guns and who have Conceal carry.
Its estimated around 57% of homes here are armed.( that they know of) and a whopping 35% have Conceal Carries.
Yet people are not dropping like flies in hail of gun fire.

Rant Over !!!

 

[Laughingman]

Might be worth noting the statistics regarding homicides using a rifle (any rifle not just semi-auto ones) in are state. I think 11 or so people were actually murdered with rifles in 2016. The vast majority of homicides use handguns (probably stolen). Compare it to other sources of mortality in Washington state to show how little such a law will actually do.

 

[DuneHopper]

Might be worth noting the statistics regarding homicides using a rifle (any rifle not just semi-auto ones) in are state. I think 11 or so people were actually murdered with rifles in 2016. The vast majority of homicides use handguns (probably stolen). Compare it to other sources of mortality in Washington state to show how little such a law will actually do.

When one compares auto-death, death at home and natural causes all far out number all gun deaths in a given year, and not just by a small margin either this is the BS they want everyone to buy is guns are killing everyone when in fact they are not. In 2016
the drug deaths alone ( which I didnt mention) are so far off the charts they wont even report them accurately instead they list them as certain body failures, they don't say near as often Chuck was high on Heroine and walked out in frint of a truck, they save pedestrian fatality.In this country the major is not even close to guns but drugs legal and prescribed are killing in record numbers.

 

[bentoncity]

Here's some statistics in the attached file. Latest I could find are for 2016. NOTE: The table lists AUTOMATIC weapons but I'm pretty sure someones an idiot. Just sayin.. Data Tables (title is Type Weapon/Force) *** Take note of #1 notes @ bottom of page on weapon count***
There's a TON of free data available via the link but some of it's a real pita to find.

Respective of the BS concerning rates of fire by some a$$wipe nutcase using any AR style, go watch this video. Just so you all know, I tracked this Sheriff down as well as the dept he used to work for to validate the authenticity. The video is real and valid! It's a real eye opener.

Here's some FBI data you never see as well.. (hard to find current info)
Weapons 2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011 - 2012
Total firearms: 9,528 - 9,199 - 8,874 - 8,653 - 8,855
Handguns 6,800 - 6,501 - 6,115 - 6,251 - 6,371
Rifles 380 - 351 - 367 - 332 - 322
Shotguns 442 - 423 - 366 - 362 - 303

"It takes a shooter roughly six to eight seconds to fire off a 30-round magazine, which was reportedly used in the Newtown massacre, according to Joseph Green, a retired firearms instructor and agent of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

On the other hand, a trained shooter would need about 13.5 to 22 seconds to fire the same number of bullets with six magazines containing five rounds. That means limiting magazines from 30 to seven rounds really only slows a determined shooter down by about 7.5 to 14 seconds."

And if your hear this BS..from where ever
"A recent poll presented by Washington Ceasefire and Ceasefire Oregon showed that 65 percent of adults in the two states — including a great many gun owners — favor an assault weapons ban and want lawmakers to act."

It's a line of BS. That info was cherry picked and provides no validation what-so-ever. A survey of 310 people can hardly be considered worthy. It's just another lie I looked up and validated.

Dan
Ok, I'm off my

 

[shibbershabber]

Got to love facts. Too bad the other side isnt interested in acknowledging them or even debating them.


Other numbers I like to use...

Roughly 400 million guns in the US among about 100 million legal gun owners.
firearm-homicides are about 11000

If we assume that each of those murders was a 1:1 crime committed by a legal gun owner.... which we all know if not true, but bear with me for the sake of argument...

That would mean that less than 1/100th of 1% of gun owners are killers. OR that of the 400 million guns in the US, 0.00275% are used in murders (again, assuming one gun, one murder... and we know that its not like that)

Hardly a gun problem.

OR

We have all seen the stat of 2 million times a year a privately held firearms stops a crime?

For the sake of argument, lets throw HALF of those out as irrelevant or misrepresented or whatever...
That leaves us with 1 million defensive uses annually.

Now, lets say that 90% of those are not serious... maybe the threat of the gun or showing it ended the situation and no one was really going to get hurt.
That still leaves 100000 more serious defensive uses.
Now lets toss out 90% of those... maybe these are cases where the gun came out but no shots fired, etc. otherwise, no one was hurt.

So now we are left with the more serious cases, maybe these are true life and death situations where a serious assault, rape, kidnapping or attempted murder was taking place.
Thats 10000 lives saved essentially... by citizens choosing to arms themselves.

Thats a considerable number considering the murder by gun numbers are around 11000.

The number is probably higher... but I couldnt find detailed stats.

Given the number published... and my even throwing out 95.5% of them... we still have 10k saved.


Cant find states on people saved by rape whistles, mace, pleading for help or asking nicely..... I suspect those people went in to the stats for raped, robbed or killed.

 

[DuneHopper]

 

[Boss]

Got to love facts. Too bad the other side isnt interested in acknowledging them or even debating them.

This^^ for the extremist gun-banners...the ones who are largely responsible for driving most of these efforts. They don't want you to have firearms, period. They won't engage in factual arguments because the facts, as we know, aren't on their side (the most obvious being criminals are already breaking laws committing their crimes of violence as well as those jurisdictions with most stringent gun control have the highest crime). So they try to seize the moral high ground and go to their defaults...'Common sense...and if it saves just one life...etc etc etc.' They're never going to have an epiphany and say 'Ok, you're right.' Attempting to debate with them is usually pointless, except perhaps for those off to the side with an open mind, who may overhear, and learn something.

The statistic I like...as of 2016, per John Hopkins...arguably the 3rd leading cause of death in the US? Medical errors. If the data is correct...250,000 deaths/year...you're at 20X+ more jeopardy of being killed by your highly trained 'medical expert' than from a overt firearm violence.

Yep...it's all just soooo 'common sense.'

Hopefully we get an update soon...in the mean time, at the very least, tracking down emails for shops, ranges, etc. probably isn't a bad idea.

BOSS

 

[bentoncity]

In as much as I like facts to countermand the lies from the other side, it does nothing unless we can get those facts before the public. I encourage EVERYONE to write letters to your local news agency (any), your elected officials, the SOS, the attorney genearals office. Take out ads in your local nickel papers, get facts out before/into the public. The SOS, SAF, CCRKBA & NRA aren't going to make it on their own. Everyone of us needs to start our own promos and get the word out.
IF Wyman proceeds, I'm game for stickers or more. But unless we ALL support (& rally for support) the above to help get the word out and support their efforts, we're screwed. We're the choir here, now let's start preaching to the masses! I'll be doing nickel ads, writing my local news & my worthless legislators. What are you doing? My local newspaper actually printed a letter of mine in the Sunday paper.
Letter: I-1639 breaches 2nd Amendment

The content in these links below DESERVE reading...especially the 1st one.

All About I-1639
REPORT PAID I-1639 SIGNATURE GATHERING - Save Our Security | No on I-1639
NRA-ILA | West Coast Plutocrats Target Washington State Gun Owners… Again (Initiative 1639)
NRA-ILA | Washington State Gun Owners Targeted by Another Misguided Ballot Initiative

Unknown who/whom did the i1639 site but it's darn well done.

Dan

 

[Diamondback]

And if Wyman won't do her job, Recall her and elect someone who will.

 

[bentoncity]

And if Wyman won't do her job, Recall her and elect someone who will.

Quaint idea but virtually impossible. Here's why. I started & fought a recall (my city mayor) to the State Supreme Court on my own with no legal help and no money but my own some years back. I lost the case but won the war. Ex mayor received like 10~15 votes in the next election and lost. And it was all over the news and blah blah blah. Cost the city somewhere around $70K in lawyer fees. Cost me a few hundred bucks & a LOT of time. Not to mention the toll on my wife.

Here's my point. I filed the recall petition & the city atty. fought the case. IE: Unlimited atty. funds provided by the city, allowed by law, to fight a private citizen on a recall. My tax dollars going against me. Oh joy...
NOW.. IF anyone filed a recall against Wyman, just who/whom do you think would be defending her? An atty from her office? Ferguson? Hmm? I wonder how many attys they have and how much $$$ they have to fight anyone filing a recall?

I filed requests, with a full rewrite of the RCW recall laws, with my elected officials to change the recall laws in this state to ENABLE the citizens of the state to be able to rid ourselves of those POS politicians we don't want nor need. Their response? I'll paraphrase it.. "I/we believe in your endeavor but there's no way it would ever be allowed to make it to a vote nor through committee. As we have other matters before us...blah blah blah"
IF, & it's a big if, I could ever garner enough legal help and $$ to support a RADICAL change to our recall laws, I'd be on it like stink on bubblegum. Pretty much like 1639!
You want a recall? Then you better figure out how to fund it and/or contact Tim Eyeman and figure out how to do it. I'm not against it but there's a darn sure uphill battle and we still need to win 1639. Fighting 2 fronts makes no sense.

Dan

 

[Diamondback]

Dan, I take your point. The Recall campaign would be for *after* the 1639 fight's over one way or the other... I'm a firm believer in having multiple tiers of "next stage" plans ranging from Best to Worst Cases and multiple in between, ready to use as frameworks to build off of whichever fits best when you know how the domino's fallen.

 

[4whatitsworth]

And if Wyman won't do her job, Recall her and elect someone who will.

Lets see, a state that hasn't elected a Republican governor in 40 years, has only one Republican in a state-wide elected office (Wyman) and a state that went for Hillary in landslide numbers, I guess recalling Wyman is the best move. I mean someone even more conservative and to your liking would be a shoe-in, right? And if you are wrong, well there is nothing to lose either? I'll give you just a small taste of what the state democrats planned to do if they had won that position in 16. Their overall policy was "reduce barriers to voting and increase registration and election participation through progressive measures." Know what that meant? One, allow felons to vote, not just the ones who "done their time" but the ones currently in prison. Two, less enforcement of the required duties of the Secretary of State, like purging voter roles of the deceased, investigating why there are 112 registered voters at one single family residence in Yakima and no checks and balances to the "motor-voter" program because all those things impede voter turnout. Three, allow "non-traditional" voters to vote in special circumstances, like state and local initiatives, school boards and the like because undocumented immigrants and 16 year olds have an interest in their communities too. Now think about the first one and that last one. Do you think felons, illegals and 16 year olds have an interest in you keeping your 2A rights? But I'm sure you know best, getting someone into office better than Wyman would be a slam dunk.

 

[Diamondback]

I'm not talking Left vs Right, I'm looking for somebody who will DO THEIR DAMN JOB and adhere to the requirements of State Law. Maybe Wyman isn't as big or foul a turd as Podlodowski would have been, but that doesn't necessarily automatically make her Up To The Job.

By the way, welcome to the Ignore List, don't bother ever replying to me again because it won't be seen.

Do-Nothing Dickbag Establishment Republicans are what got Trump shoved up the country's bubblegum, and their cowardice in the face of flagrant Democratic Fascism is what only drives more people who otherwise couldn't stand "Cheeto Jesus" onto the Trump Train every day.

 

[shibbershabber]

I see @Diamondback isnt one for heated debate...
Ignore list? Really...

Though @4whatitsworth has a point. I hear it all the time... "if you dont like who is in office, just vote them out"!

Right. The problem is that when one side has a stranglehold on the system and has a majority convinced that their methods are best and voting for a Republican means that no one gets healthcare, gays get killed, re-open debtors prisons, blacks go back to the fields, etc..... When this is the sentiment... and out in the streets Conservatism is literally squelched by unchecked violence... HOW can we say that we can just vote someone out?

Thats not to say that we should not be trying to do so and sending in a ballot every time... but the reality of things for the last 20 years and certainly now is that A real conservative will not be winning statewide office any time soon.

 

[MDL]

Sent an email and info from the forum to SOS. When(not IF) this gets on the ballot we need to get together from Bellingham on down to Vancouver to get the word out about I-1639.

 

[Diamondback]

Seriously, I'd be saying the same things if this had been an Eyman Tax Slash with the same flaws, or a proposal to make WA go Universal CCW Recognition with same. I expect an office responsible for the integrity of our elections to be held by someone with integrity, and while Wyman is less deficient than Podlodowski she is still lacking. I would be content with even having Sam Reed back over her...

 

[MDL]

Here is a response to an e-mail I had sent to Phil Watson from SOS concerning I-1639 and at a minimum can be done at the grassroot level. I mentioned those on here who were going to contact FFL's and so on! Who knows what Wyman is going to do with the measure...



The best thing right now we can do to try and get some grassroots politics happening is make sure every gun shop, range, and gun club is passing out or making our flyers available to customers.

The purpose of this is two fold:
1. education
2. action
- we need a high turnout from our voters to win

Here's the download link Help get the word out, download and distribute NO on I-1639 flyer alert - Save Our Security | No on I-1639

Respectfully,

Phil Watson

 

[Diamondback]

From NRA...



NRA Challenges Fraudulent Ballot Petitions in Washington

Fairfax, Va. - The National Rifle Association today filed a lawsuit challenging the Washington Secretary of State's decision to certify the significantly flawed and inaccurate petition sheets for Initiative 1639. The petition certification paves the way for it to be placed on the November ballot.

"Secretary of State Wyman has a legal and constitutional duty to reject all I-1639 signatures obtained using fraudulent copies of this initiative," said Chris W. Cox, executive director of NRA-ILA. "It's telling that the gun control lobby and their billionaire backers will break the rules and resort to dirty tricks in order to get their latest gun control scheme on the ballot."

Among other things, I-1639;

• Creates a gun registry for any transfers of commonly owned semi-automatic rifles;
• Introduces a 10-business day waiting period on the purchase of semi-automatic rifles;
• Imposes criminal liability on otherwise law-abiding gun owners who fail to store their firearms to state standards;
• Increases the age limit to possess or purchase semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21; Mandates training prior to purchase;
• And authorizes a $25 fee to be assessed to semiautomatic rifle purchasers.

"We call on the court to uphold state law and reject these fraudulent petitions," concluded Cox.

The lawsuit was filed in Thurston County Superior Court.

Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America's oldest civil rights and sportsmen's group. More than five million members strong, NRA continues to uphold the Second Amendment and advocates enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation's leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the armed services. Be sure to follow the NRA on Facebook at NRA on Facebook and Twitter @NRA.


FOLLOW NRA-ILA

© 2018 National Rifle Association of America, Institute For Legislative Action. To contact NRA-ILA call 800-392-8683. Address: 11250 Waples Mill Road Fairfax, Virginia 22030.

Thank you!

What makes Wanker Wayne's Weasel Wonks think they'll fare any better than the Lawfare Specialists did?

 

[MDL]

And...Alan Gottlieb from SAF as a private citizen!



LAWSUIT CHALLENGING VALIDITY OF I-1639 PETITIONS FILED IN THURSTON COUNTY


BELLEVUE, WA – A lawsuit challenging the validity of anti-gun-rights Initiative 1639 has been filed in Thurston County Superior Court by nationally-recognized Second Amendment advocate Alan Gottlieb, but this time he's filed as a private citizen and Washington State voter.
The legal action, naming Secretary of State Kim Wyman as defendant in her official capacity, is supported by the Second Amendment Foundation, the Bellevue-based organization founded by Gottlieb more than four decades ago. SAF has become a powerhouse in gun rights litigation at both the state and federal levels.
"While I head a national organization," Gottlieb said, "I also happen to be a registered voter in Washington state, and this initiative is legally invalid. The petitions were not printed in accordance with state law because they did not have a full and correct version of the measure printed on the back."
Additionally, Gottlieb's lawsuit notes that language intended to be added to state law was not underlined nor was language to be stricken from existing law identified by strike-throughs.
"How was anyone supposed to fully understand what they were signing," he wondered. "Just because the wealthy elitists behind this poorly-prepared initiative spent a couple of million dollars in an attempt to get on the November ballot is no reason for the court to allow them to dance around state law.
"I'm a citizen of this state," Gottlieb continued, "and I vote. It is personally offensive that the backers of this measure think they can buy their way to victory by ignoring the law.
"This challenge maintains that because the initiative petitions were incorrectly printed, there isn't a single valid signature on them," he explained. "It is essentially the same as signing a contract to buy a new Ford and they deliver a used Chevy. At the end of the day, it's worthless paper. That's not my fault, it's the fault of the people behind I-1639 who apparently thought it didn't matter to follow the letter of the law."