The Police are prepping. Are YOU?

[sobo]

Im going with innocent until proven guilty. The cops would have to be pretty stupid to pull someone over and beat them to death without evidence of a serious crime. Use of force still has to meet the reasonableness standard, even if he was Im suspecting the wreckless driving theory is just a red herring....

I'm with ya on the innocent until proven guilty. Saw a Fox News report where the anchor stated that Mr. Nichols' had no criminal history, i.e., the "Dindo Defense" that we hear about so often from so many ne'er-do-wells had no precedent with Mr. Nichols...

 

[CLT65]

To me, things like this boil down to some simple basics. Questions of whether the victim/suspect was a "bad guy", whether he resisted or made things worse for himself by copping an attitude, all these things are irrelevant to the basic issue, being police misconduct. Was he a bad guy, or as innocent and pure as the wind-driven snow? I don't know, and it doesn't matter to me.

Just for the sake of discussion, if this guy had been a felon, a real dirtbag who resisted and did everything wrong, would it make what they did to him OK? Remember, if they can get away with doing it to the worst of the worst, they can do it to you too.

I respect the hard-working police out there who do a tough, thankless job, day in and day out, professionals who do the right thing without crossing that line.

My dad was the an honest, upstanding guy. I think he had one speeding ticket in his entire life. 30+ years ago, a low-level plain-clothes deputy trespassed inside our house and assaulted my dad. It was a screw-up on his part; he wasn't even looking for my dad. To cover up this trespass and assault, my dad was arrested. In an attempt to keep him from suing the department, he was charged with felony assault of a police officer among other made-up things, and offered a slap-on-the-hand plea bargain to make it all go away.

To make a long story short, a jury threw it out and he eventually had the arrest expunged, but I tell that story just to illustrate that you can be a clean-living, law-abiding person, and have things go south in a bad way that can ruin your life in a hurry, compliments of a bad cop in a department that tolerates and sticks up for them. It's sad to know that often good cops will stick up for bad ones. I understand that brotherhood in that line of work is a powerful bond, but that should only go so far.

This is why I feel strongly about respecting the rights of everyone, even "bad guys". The police department back then tried their best to paint my dad as a "bad guy" to distract from their officer's crime. We need to look past the "bad guy" and see if the officers followed the law in what they did.

 

[sobo]

@CLT65 I hope your dad sued the livin' shiit out of that sheriff's department, the deputy, the DA offering the plea bargain, and anyone else tangentially involved in that miscarriage of justice. And won...

 

[CLT65]

@CLT65 I hope your dad sued the livin' shiit out of that sheriff's department, the deputy, the DA offering the plea bargain, and anyone else tangentially involved in that miscarriage of justice. And won...

That's a whole other story, one that I won't get into. I'll just say that I wish it could have been that easy. No, he never got that level of satisfaction. He felt a level of exoneration that the jury threw it out so fast it made heads spin, and the fact that it was easy to get it expunged (one of the cops involved was caught lying on the witness stand), but the lawsuit was another messed-up miscarriage of justice. He ended up with a small settlement that amounted to almost nothing, and I'm not aware of anyone involved having any consequences for what they did.

For me, it took many years to get over my distrust of cops (a couple of my best friends are cops now), but I still have a deep-seated distrust of lawyers and especially prosecutors. The DA was a despicable human being who held no regard for justice, only his personal "wins". This was so long ago that I'm sure everyone involved is retired or gone. My folks moved away and put it all behind them, but my dad never really got over it. He passed away a couple years ago, and I miss him.

 

[Alexx1401]

Since I was busy I did not have time till now to look at this. After watching all they made public all I could say is what a shame. Yes the guy did not cooperate but. 5 guys could not get cuffs on someone who is less than #200?
So the LEO's spray each other with OC and then let him run away? So when they catch him again now they are all pissed off and lose control. Those thin wiry people are often the hardest to subdue BUT, me and 4 of my co workers could have got the guy in cuffs. Once they got cuffs on him things would have been far easier. Even if he got up and ran. Try to run with your hands behind your back. Its hard to do. So they took turns making a pinata out of him because they lost control. So now they all get to serve time in prison. The worst part is other Cops are going to pay the price for this stupidity. Not to mention how many people who live there are going to pay for this.

 

[sobo]

Yes the guy did not cooperate

Thisis the only part of your post with which I take issue, Alexx. Based upon the first moments of Video #1 that you can watch at this link, I did not find where the LEOs gave Mr. Nichols' even the slightest chance to cooperate. They were instantly upon him, yanked the door open, and drug him out of the car. He likely couldn't be extracted from the vehicle very easily because he probably still had his seat belt buckled, which the delay occasioned by that seemed to anger the officers even further. I never heard a request to "Please step out of the vehicle, sir" or even a command to "GET OUT OF THE CAR, NOW!" until after they had ripped him from the car and were wrasslin' him to the pavement. Seems to me like they screwed the pooch from the git-go...

 

[Alexx1401]

Thisis the only part of your post with which I take issue, Alexx. Based upon the first moments of Video #1 that you can watch at this link, I did not find where the LEOs gave Mr. Nichols' even the slightest chance to cooperate. They were instantly upon him, yanked the door open, and drug him out of the car. He likely couldn't be extracted from the vehicle very easily because he probably still had his seat belt buckled, which the delay occasioned by that seemed to anger the officers even further. I never heard a request to "Please step out of the vehicle, sir" or even a command to "GET OUT OF THE CAR, NOW!" until after they had ripped him from the car and were wrasslin' him to the pavement. Seems to me like they screwed the pooch from the git-go...

I am trying to give the LEO's the benefit of the doubt even though I saw the same thing you did. Something "set them off" and not sure what. I was looking at it from the point of what I do at my job. When we are told to do a "take down" its only after verbal deescalation has failed, or the person has assaulted someone. With 5 of us there is no way the person "gets away" after we go hands on. I have been doing this for over a decade here and never have had someone just get away from us once multiple people have a hand on them. Knock on wood, so far none of the people we take down has ever been seriously injured either. So it can be done. Watching these guys it was easy to see people lost control of their emotions. I did not see a single one of them trying to pull back the others either. We have terminated people where I work for this. Its one of the few things that will get you flat out terminated. When I train new people I warn them. If you think you can not control your emotions in a fight like this quit now, find another job. Anyone who knows me knows I am over the top supportive of Police. Stuff like this burns my butt because I know its just going to get good Cops hurt now. These guys are all going to do time and they deserve it. Sadly them doing time will not stop the people who want to use this to fan flames and start riots. I warned my Wife before I went to work to NOT go downtown tonight. Family is at one of the Hospitals there and I told her DO NOT go down there tonight without me.

 

[GrayGoose]

Which I don't think any of us have seen. Hence, my thought that instead of speculation and conjecture, we all should wait until the federal investigation is concluded and the facts come out in court.

Surely the BLM/Pantyfa thugs will peacefully wait for the facts too.

 

[BBQ Guy]

This seems appropriate for a few a folks here...

 

[Unicykle]

I knew we had a Nanny Filter to change some words to "bubblegum" but I had no idea it changed the words "police brutality" lying" and "murder" to shenanigans

Learn something new everyday I guess

That's because some of us still go with innocent until proven guilty which is why even people caught red-handed get their day in court

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

That's because some of us still go with innocent until proven guilty which is why even people caught red-handed get their day in court

Well, too bad those cops didn't adhere to the same standard

 

[Unicykle]

Well, too bad those cops didn't adhere to the same standard

Now that I can agree with. What I also found disturbing was after they beat the bubblegum out of him they stood around congratulating themselves in some thug language that I couldn't even understand Which made it seem like they were just another street gang but this one had badges.

 

[slimmer13]

Another angle

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Now that I can agree with. What I also found disturbing was after they beat the bubblegum out of him they stood around congratulating themselves

Fair point, and to that, what I found most disturbing is how all the other LEO's and paramedics and whatnot involved acted like it was just another Thursday (or whatever day, I didn't check)

in some thug language that I couldn't even understand Which made it seem like they were just another street gang but this one had badges.

Look at you! Doing the math wrong but somehow still getting the correct answer!

 

[Mark K]

That's a whole other story, one that I won't get into. I'll just say that I wish it could have been that easy. No, he never got that level of satisfaction. He felt a level of exoneration that the jury threw it out so fast it made heads spin, and the fact that it was easy to get it expunged (one of the cops involved was caught lying on the witness stand), but the lawsuit was another messed-up miscarriage of justice. He ended up with a small settlement that amounted to almost nothing, and I'm not aware of anyone involved having any consequences for what they did.

For me, it took many years to get over my distrust of cops (a couple of my best friends are cops now), but I still have a deep-seated distrust of lawyers and especially prosecutors. The DA was a despicable human being who held no regard for justice, only his personal "wins". This was so long ago that I'm sure everyone involved is retired or gone. My folks moved away and put it all behind them, but my dad never really got over it. He passed away a couple years ago, and I miss him.

Wow, tough story… Life changing for your Dad I can imagine. Would be hard not to look at Law enforcement in a vailed light after an incident like that. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Gotta grievance or a concern....raise your voice...have your demonstration.
No problems with that.

However.....
I do not agree with or understand just how destroying areas , burning cars and buildings , as well as looting...
Will do anything to help your cause.

In any event...to answer the OP title question...nope not really....
I am going to a gun show...so there is that...
Andy

 

[Unicykle]

Look at you! Doing the math wrong but somehow still getting the correct answer!

We can clearly see which side you're on but don't misunderstand me I am Procop but not Procop period. I have two close friends which are police officers so I can guarantee you they are not all bad because if we're going to go with your point of view then all Black people are bad since they are a minority but a majority of the crime which is just as stupidly wrong.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I had a nice quiet peaceful sleep last night, I don't live in the big city.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

We can clearly see which side you're on but don't misunderstand me I am Procop but not Procop period. I have two close friends which are police officers so I can guarantee you they are not all bad because if we're going to go with your point of view then all Black people are bad since they are a minority but a majority of the crime which is just as stupidly wrong.

Ooohhh, and you where doing so good! See, where you went wrong was I said "I think those cops were most likely bad because I saw them doing bad things" and you turned that into "I hate all cops"

Pretty clear difference

 

[Mikej]

Watch Video #1 at the link above and note how his body is contorted by the way they are restraining him. Then ask yourself if you could lie on the ground, given the way they are holding him. It would've had to have been one helluva Houdini move...

I've wondered about this for years. From when the "Cops" shows first started. It's animal nature to push/pull/struggle in the opposite direction if you were being man handled and screamed at.

I am trying to give the LEO's the benefit of the doubt even though I saw the same thing you did. Something "set them off" and not sure what.

I don't know about this case. This thread might be one of the threads I won't read anymore because I've seen enough. Besides, something that's been happening here as of late is good members starting to attack each other for airing their opinions.
So a thought that just crossed my mind while reading this. Would these situations, which seem to be happening more and more, be lessened if our police officers in this country hadn't been turned from people we have always looked up to, into the bad guys? There's been nothing but how bad police are for a long time. They are human beings in those uniforms. They aren't any less susceptible to the flood of bubblegum that's been/being thrown at them every day than anyone else. Big city cops have been getting shat on constantly for a number of years.

Just a thought. No reason for me to be quoted for being wrong minded somehow.