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The Police are no help! what are my options?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by jmac3434, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. jmac3434

    jmac3434 SE portland Member

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    Here is the story, for about six months now we have had some vandalizing and robbery issues in my neighborhood. Things like tires being slashed slashed to breaking in cars and or stealing things off of vehicles. One of my vehicle got all four tires slashed a few months ago and now on Sunday night a roof rack with 4 offroad lights on it got stolen of the top of the rig. I live in a very nice part of Portland so this is very unusual and don't think its my demographic, anyways. When the tires got slashed I called in a report to the police just do have documentation and for insurance if they caught the people doing it.

    The roof rack was bolted onto the vehicle so it would have taken whoever a long time to get it off and would have had to used to some tools to get if off. So I called the police again the file another report and try to get an officer out here to finger print the vehicle since you could see hand print and smudge marks on the truck where they were holding themselves up while unbolting stuff since its a lifted vehicle. When I told the officer that he said they couldn't do anything without a serial number or something to show its mine, so there is no point to come take the prints. I was dumbfounded!!!!

    Then asked the officer how can we stop and or catch these people doing this, and he basically said you would have to catch them in the act and call the police but could not act on them since they were not physically inside your property (ei in your house or vehicle). Also he said it sounded these guys doing this are probably minors which I agree with so then he went into a whole bunch of other reason about how no one can do anything even if you catch the person in the act if they are minors and you are not. So I said to the officer, "basically I have to just deal with the robberies and vandalism to my property, and if I catch the people in the act I need to pull up a chair and watch the show since they would be long gone before the cops arrived when I called you guys!" Then he informed me that if a physically harmed or held them to wait for the police that I could be charged with kidnapping if they were minors and or assault since they were not physically trying to harm me. I said to the officer, "it sounds like to me that criminals are protected more than the general public." To that he said nothing.

    So I am posting on here to see if anyone has had an experience like mine and has any ideas for me. Also let keep it to helpful input and not crazy off the wall ideas please :laugh:

    On
     
  2. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    get out the video cams and record, if you get something make a copy take it to the cops.
    if they do nothing tell them you will go to the news and report it all and give them a copy as well.
     
  3. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    I would look into what Oregon's law on citizens arrest is. Sometimes it only allows for arrests for someone committing a felony, but some states allow for it for theft of property. It woundnt hurt to look into it. I wouldnt trust an officer for an interpretation of laws.
     
  4. BlvdKing

    BlvdKing Almost Boring Member

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    Quick google search:

    Oregon Statutes
    Search Oregon Statutes

    161.229 - Use of physical force in defense of property
    A person is justified in using physical force, other than deadly physical force, upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes it to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission by the other person of theft or criminal mischief of property.

    [1971 c.743 §26]


    Oregon Statutes
    Search Oregon Statutes

    161.235 - Use of physical force in making an arrest or in preventing an escape
    Except as provided in ORS 161.239, a peace officer is justified in using physical force upon another person only when and to the extent that the peace officer reasonably believes it necessary:

    (1) To make an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person unless the peace officer knows that the arrest is unlawful; or

    (2) For self-defense or to defend a third person from what the peace officer reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force while making or attempting to make an arrest or while preventing or attempting to prevent an escape.

    [1971 c.743 §27]
    Oregon Statutes
    Search Oregon Statutes

    161.255 - Use of physical force by private person making citizen's arrest
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, a private person acting on the person's own account is justified in using physical force upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes it necessary to make an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person whom the person has arrested under ORS 133.225.

    (2) A private person acting under the circumstances prescribed in subsection (1) of this section is justified in using deadly physical force only when the person reasonably believes it necessary for self-defense or to defend a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.

    [1971 c.743 §31; 1973 c.836 §339]
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but do you park your vehicles in your driveway? If you do and you have outside lights by your garage doors always leave them on at night. I have a couple of instances of people breaking or trying to break into my cars. I started just leaving the porch and garage door lights on EVERY night and haven't had a problem since. Thieves don't like working in the light.
     
  6. jmac3434

    jmac3434 SE portland Member

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    I have looked them up but I do see in 161.235 where the officer told me I could be charged with assault if they are not physically in my property like my house or car with me in it, because they are not trying to do me any physical harm?

    also in 161.255 where it could be considered holding someone against their will since they are a minor and once again not in my house trying to harm me?
     
  7. jmac3434

    jmac3434 SE portland Member

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    Yes my vehicles do get parked outside alot since in my area they houses dont have big garages at all, but I dont have motion lights that cover the driveway and do try to remember to keep another outside light on as well.
     
  8. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Motion lights for the driveway might be your cheapest form of deterrent.
     
  9. jmac3434

    jmac3434 SE portland Member

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    ooops I meant I do have motion lights for the driveway
     
  10. Aero Denezol

    Aero Denezol Salem Active Member

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    This kind of thing happened to me too for a while, while I was at work no less... And, you are right, the police are of little to no help. I ended up having to park my car in a different place, that was more well lit and in plain sight. Not sure if the punks moved on or the strategy worked, but the vandalism has stopped.
     
  11. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    Get a car alarm with a proximity sensor. They beep when people get close and will go off if they dont back up. I had a convertable with one for when the top was off. The little blinking red light alone will keep alot of the criminals away.

    Like the others have mentioned, bright outdoor lights will help quite a bit.

    What about a trail cam?
     
  12. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Before some stupid laws came into effect a good beating is what those thieves should get.
    Especially if they were minors.

    You just don't mess with other mens property. Or do it and you might get your ___ beat.
     
  13. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You better stick with the video camera and calling the cops.
     
  14. 22many

    22many PNW Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar problem about 5 years ago when I lived in se Portland. I had a second vehicle that I used for off road and drove it maybe once a month. The rest of the time it sat in the driveway. After having countless thing stolen off of it I had has enough. A 24 case of coors light in bottles solved the problem. After drinking them i busted them up in my driveway and put them under and around the vehicle. Must have worked as I didn't have a problem after that.

    I don't suggest it but that's what worked for me. As far as the police, I only use them for my insurance claim. Their pretty much useless.
     
  15. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    I used to own a marina in the Ozarks. We had the same kind of problems with the boats stored there. I asked the county sheriff what to do if I caught the thief, since it would take the deputy at least 30 minutes to get there. The sheriff said, "Well, I would guess that your thief would fall down a lot while you're waiting. And it would be his word against yours."
     
  16. R-Rizzo

    R-Rizzo NW Oregon Member

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    The Correct ORS that deals with Citizens Arrest is --
    ORS 133.225

    Arrest by private person
    (1) A private person may arrest another person for any crime committed in the presence of the private person if the private person has probable cause to believe the arrested person committed the crime. A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer.
    (2) In order to make the arrest a private person may use physical force as is justifiable under ORS 161.255 (Use of physical force by private person making citizen's arrest). [1973 c.836 §74]

    ORS 161.255 only deals the allowable force when effecting such an arrest....

    Seems cut and dried... You witness a crime being committed, you are allowed under Oregon Law to use reasonable force to place that Person under Citizen Arrest and deliver them to a Peace Officer.

    ORS Doesn't make any mention of age restriction (Adults Arresting Minors) On Property/Off Property etc etc...

    Used to work Security at Lloyd Center... Used to Arrest under this statute every other week or so... Usually for fighting (Disorderly Conduct) or Criminal Trespass. Only significant differences is that Police can arrest for crimes that were committed when they were not present, and they are usually immune (individually anyway) from civil lawsuits.

    IMHO - You are within your rights to place a person (Juvenile or Not) under Citizen's Arrest if you personally observe them committing a crime (Vandalism / Theft, etc etc.) Whether or not they are present on or stealing your personal property or someone elses is immaterial.

    **Disclaimer -- I am not a lawyer.... I do not play a lawyer on T.V.... I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.... And this is in no way to be construed or taken as legal advice...**

    **PS, IMHO - This is complete and utter hogwash....

     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    My dad caught some guys like this and tossed them face first down a blackberry pit. That was 30 years ago though. If he could have done that now - jail time.
     
  18. sir-kind78

    sir-kind78 Vancouver WA Member

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    Honestly catch the suckers. I hate thieves and this is udder BS for anyone to have to deal with.

    Video them and get them in the act and of course let your neighbors know whats going on so they hearing your commotion can call the police with claims of your defending yourself.....

    Should help with the force issue if neighbors are witnessing things and know that your arresting a criminal in the act. Even better is if they have video cameras too!

    Sounds like some Youtube fun here! Invite some friends over and get the cameras out and catch these idiots red handed.

    No pity for the self inflicted and they could have been really clumsy trying to steal your things. You never hurt a fly just held them down.....


    Honestly I have had to use force many times and when working security. Never have I had this issue. Your officer must have just been out of rookie school.

    If you have to hold someone down and make sure they are not a threat, (no waving guns around please that might not help your case as a friend of mine did that) alert the police, and show up in court to make sure they get something.

    Attempted murder and robbery by 10+ people got the leader just over a year. Child molesters get probation. Are these the people you want protecting you?...

    Oh and cops wont stop a child molester until he actually harms a child. In the past 60 days I have had that issue and even after holding onto him for the Skamania county sheriff to book and release. 24 hours later he was in a daycare.

    Police are great for documenting your death..... Not too much more any more. I should know. After I was robbed they refused to protect me. John Moses Browning stepped up in 1911 with a 45 ACP wonder. Nothing yet from the criminals since the 45 was loaded and the signs were put up.


    Hunting of criminals is a year long hunting pass. No bag limit. No pity for the self inflicted. Survivors used for target practice.
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  19. lonegunman

    lonegunman Eastern Washington Active Member

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    Buy more and better outside lights. Costco sells a nice camera system with a few hundred gigabytes of storage to record the encounters. If you can afford it, install it. Then call the local TV stations first, let them air the content and tell them your story of the police refusing to assist in stopping the crimes and threatening to arrest you for trying.

    When my next door neighbors had an intruder a few years ago, the cop who arrived on scene almost started crying and refused to go into the house and insure it was secure for them to return too. I said, "don't worry little fella, if you are too afraid, just stand-by and try and stop whomever I manage to chase out of the house". He was so embarassed he balled up his courage, patted his moussed hairdo into place and with grim determination went thru the front door. I offered to follow and he declined. Dark uniforms hide tinkle stains or so they say.

    Thankfully, the one semi-badguy had departed and was caught by a much braver policeman a few blocks away. Turned out to be a mentally handicapped older guy who was disoriented and thought that was his home. Captain Courage went back on patrol and we all felt safe.
     
  20. strongtower6114

    strongtower6114 Pierce, Washington Member

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    PVC pipe, bbq igniter, hairspray, tennis balls and coffee. Be just like shooting varmints :D oh wait, it IS shooting varmints lol