The one time I go into Safeway unarmed...

[LibertyorDeath]

Early this morning I went to Safeway to get some food before my shift. This was one of the rare times I actually wore my uniform because I had an undershirt with profanity on. My M&P was still locked up in my Jeep. I just thought this was a quick trip in and out in a lowest possible risk situation. On my way in, near the entrances that are closed at that time, I see a younger guy sitting in front of a guitar case playing music, nothing too odd for this town. We don't have much violent crime at all, just a bunch of ding biscuits. When I leave I see that he is now playing with what I initially thought was a BB Gun, I shake my head in that whole "You dumbass" sort of way. Then I see him take out the magazine and cycle the slide to the rear. I don't think it was a bb gun, good thing that guy didn't want to shoot me because I had no defense at all.

Read More

 

[The Quiet Man]

What did you do when you decided the gun was real? What did he do? Are you military or LEO? (the uniform you mention is the reason for the question). What was the actual time this happened? In any regard, it again reinforces the fact that "low risk" situations can change in a hurry.

 

[LibertyorDeath]

I acted like it was a normal everyday thing and went about my business. I then went to my Jeep, got out my pistol and left the parking lot. I didn't want him to think I even cared so he didn't freak out or anything, possibly hurting some innocent bystander. I then called 911 and reported it. I work in corrections, our uniforms are nearly identical to those worn by our local PD. This happened at 0510 this morning.

 

[The Quiet Man]

I acted like it was a normal everyday thing and went about my business. I then went to my Jeep, got out my pistol and left the parking lot. I didn't want him to think I even cared so he didn't freak out or anything, possibly hurting some innocent bystander. I then called 911 and reported it. I work in corrections, our uniforms are nearly identical to those worn by our local PD. This happened at 0510 this morning.

Thanks for the clarification. That is really spooky that someone would behave in such a manner in front of you while in a uniform he could have assumed to be PD.

 

[ZachS]

My take:

1. I wouldn't be surprised it if was an airsoft gun. They're realistic, they have magazines, their slides cycle, some are dirt cheap.

2. The guy playing with it was an idiot. But perhaps that's why he's wound up playing guitar in front of the Safeway.

3. OP handled the situation marvelously.

 

[KomradRazvan]

My take:

1. I wouldn't be surprised it if was an airsoft gun. They're realistic, they have magazines, their slides cycle, some are dirt cheap.

2. The guy playing with it was an idiot. But perhaps that's why he's wound up playing guitar in front of the Safeway.

3. OP handled the situation marvelously.

+1

I couldnt have said it any better.

 

[HeavyfootHick]

"ding-biscuit"
Just entered my vocabulary list.

 

[56kninja]

My take:

1. I wouldn't be surprised it if was an airsoft gun. They're realistic, they have magazines, their slides cycle, some are dirt cheap.

2. The guy playing with it was an idiot. But perhaps that's why he's wound up playing guitar in front of the Safeway.

3. OP handled the situation marvelously.

This. Although personally I would of shouted "HES GOT A GUN!!!!!!" And then very dramatically tackle him.

 

[The Quiet Man]

This. Although personally I would of shouted "HES GOT A GUN!!!!!!" And then very dramatically tackle him.

Despite your jesting, the general public might expect that from a uniformed individual they think is a LEO. I am not saying the OP had any legal responsiblilty/authority to do so, or even that it would have been prudent if/had the gun been real. None of us have enough knowledege about the circumstances to make that judgement. However, your comment does raise a valid theoretical question or two. Putting one of us ARMED in the OP's situation, what would have been the best response (assuming we are civilian)? What would an off-duty LEO be expected to do in similiar circumstances.

 

[eriknemily]

Well, for the sake of discussion was said ding-biscuit doing anything illegal? Would that be considered brandishing a weapon or menacing? Granted the ding-biscuit was being exactly that but were his stupid actions illegal?

 

[trainsktg]

Considering the fact that the OP was in an LEO type of uniform (and considering the recent officer shootings in Seattle), I suspect there was most likely brandishing, intimidation and menacing involved. The timing of events is TOO suspiciously perfect to be otherwise coincidental.

Keith

 

[LibertyorDeath]

Well, for the sake of discussion was said ding-biscuit doing anything illegal? Would that be considered brandishing a weapon or menacing? Granted the ding-biscuit was being exactly that but were his stupid actions illegal?

He was pointing the weapon at the gas station in the parking lot. I didn't see anyone there but if there were it would be illegal under this RCW.

RCW 9.41.230
Aiming or discharging firearms, dangerous weapons.

(1) For conduct not amounting to a violation of chapter 9A.36 RCW, any person who:

(a) Aims any firearm, whether loaded or not, at or towards any human being;

(b) Willfully discharges any firearm, air gun, or other weapon, or throws any deadly missile in a public place, or in any place where any person might be endangered thereby. A public place shall not include any location at which firearms are authorized to be lawfully discharged; or

(c) Except as provided in RCW 9.41.185, sets a so-called trap, spring pistol, rifle, or other dangerous weapon,

although no injury results, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

(2) If an injury results from a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person violating subsection (1) of this section shall be subject to the applicable provisions of chapters 9A.32 and 9A.36 RCW.

Most likely this is the RCW he broke.

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.

Had I been armed I would have done the exact same thing, knowing the police station is only a few hundred yards away. If there was another person in danger then that would be different. I can only imagine how the lawyers would dissect you for going and confronting this guy and then having him end up getting shot for pointing his airsoft at you.

If I were an off duty LEO I would have probably done the same thing but instead of leaving the parking lot I would have called for backup and kept a close eye on him until they arrived and then went and dealt with the ding biscuit

 

[wsu 5.9er]

Early this morning I went to Safeway to get some food before my shift. This was one of the rare times I actually wore my uniform because I had an undershirt with profanity on. My M&P was still locked up in my girl Jeep. I just thought this was a quick trip in and out in a lowest possible risk situation. On my way in, near the entrances that are closed at that time, I see a younger guy sitting in front of a guitar case playing music, nothing too odd for this town. We don't have much violent crime at all, just a bunch of ding biscuits. When I leave I see that he is now playing with what I initially thought was a BB Gun, I shake my head in that whole "You dumbass" sort of way. Then I see him take out the magazine and cycle the slide to the rear. I don't think it was a bb gun, good thing that guy didn't want to shoot me because I had no defense at all.

Fixt.

 

[gogoDawgs]

RCW 9.41.270 states:

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

A firearm outside of a properly holstered handgun in public that is handled in anyway will 'warrant alarm fo rthe safety of other persons', unless it is being used in a manner of self defense as prescribed by law.

Well, for the sake of discussion was said ding-biscuit doing anything illegal? Would that be considered brandishing a weapon or menacing? Granted the ding-biscuit was being exactly that but were his stupid actions illegal?

Note: 'brandishing' or 'menacing' do not appear in the RCW.

 

[KomradRazvan]

RCW 9.41.270 states:

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

A firearm outside of a properly holstered handgun in public that is handled in anyway will 'warrant alarm fo rthe safety of other persons', unless it is being used in a manner of self defense as prescribed by law.



Note: 'brandishing' or 'menacing' do not appear in the RCW.

But we are still not sure if it is a real weapon or not. Since contact was not made with the individual and an uplcose inspection was nevermade. That RCW does not mention anything about something appearing to be a weapon.

 

[gogoDawgs]

However, it would give LEO enough RAS to conduct a Terry stop and interview the subject.

Short of it being a weapon as defined by RCW 9.41.010 the subject should be left alone. Unless the management asks the person to leave an he refuses.

But we are still not sure if it is a real weapon or not. Since contact was not made with the individual and an uplcose inspection was nevermade. That RCW does not mention anything about something appearing to be a weapon.

 

[bigmacattack]

But we are still not sure if it is a real weapon or not. Since contact was not made with the individual and an uplcose inspection was nevermade. That RCW does not mention anything about something appearing to be a weapon.

If you pulled a fake gun out and rob a bank you are still guilty of armed robbery. If this guy playing his guitar pulls this fake gun out and points it at a police officer, he runs the very real risk of getting shot. If someone trys to mug me with an aisoft, i'm not going to take the time to see if it says 9mm or 6mm airsoft. Seconds count ya know.:gun19:

 

[KomradRazvan]

If you pulled a fake gun out and rob a bank you are still guilty of armed robbery. If this guy playing his guitar pulls this fake gun out and points it at a police officer, he runs the very real risk of getting shot. If someone trys to mug me with an aisoft, i'm not going to take the time to see if it says 9mm or 6mm airsoft. Seconds count ya know.:gun19:

agreed, but now you are talking about "what if" scenarios. That is not what happened though. And my reply is based on the quote i responded to. He would not be charged under that RCW, being my point.

 

[JesterTac]

What Safeway is it?

 

[pokerace]

Well, for the sake of discussion was said ding-biscuit doing anything illegal? Would that be considered brandishing a weapon or menacing? Granted the ding-biscuit was being exactly that but were his stupid actions illegal?

Oregon does not have a statue dealing with "barndishing".By this we mean that there is no law that makes it illegal to show,or allow it to be seen.However,it is a crime in Oregon to point a firearm at another person.