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The Numbers Don't Lie

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by VegasGlocker, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. VegasGlocker

    VegasGlocker Forest Grove, OR New Member

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  2. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    whoda thunk, those gotta be from a pro gun paper! wait thats the sacramento bee reporting that. miracles do happen:bananadance::banana::bannanaguitar::bannanaguitar:
     
  3. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    One interesting flaw in such stats is actually pointed out in the article itself - we don't know if some liberal family bought their first gun, or some paranoid long time gun enthusiast is buying their 20th (before Obama bans them).
     
  4. Whitey375

    Whitey375 Eugene, Oregon Active Member

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    And how would that change the points in the article?

    Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Point being we actually don't know if number of gun owners is increasing, decreasing or staying constant. For example, if in fact the number of gun owners is decreasing, some may say that's what decrease in gun injuries and death is tied to.
     
  6. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Placing doubt in statistics that don't appease your own wishful beliefs, only shows the doubt you have in your own argument.
     
    DMax and (deleted member) like this.
  7. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt that firearms sales increased. I don't doubt that gun deaths/injuries decreased. What I said was that based on those two alone no pro-gun argument can be made.
     
  8. shooter58

    shooter58 Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    But the gun hating liberals say more guns more violence period! So that means the data is valid against such nonsense.
     
  9. Whitey375

    Whitey375 Eugene, Oregon Active Member

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    Explain please.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    And some gun loving people on this site are saying blue helmets will be confiscating guns by Obama's orders :)

    The idea of "more guns" and "less guns" is not in itself indicative of anything. If I own a firearm, and buy yet another one, am I safer ? Am I a larger deterrent for crime ? Am I more likely to commit suicide ? Am I a larger threat to society ? I think neither. Nothing has really changed - I was a gun owner, and I stay a gun owner. On the other hand, the records will show increase in gun sales - I bought another gun, right ? So how is that useful ? And I mean, sure, you could use such stats against unprepared surface-scratching anti gunners. But once you run into some intelligent opposition, you will look like a fool. Don't forget - college educated middle class urban residents are more likely to lean left :)
     
  11. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    So you admit & don't doubt, it wasn't the fork that made your mama eat the fat cake, but her own will power & choices (which so called crazy people blame on 'voices' or their 'brain'). Thank you. No i don't buy any person's argument when they claim they are 'crazy' & their brain made them do it like its some seperate tool from the rest of their body & their whole, including whatever you want to call a soul. It all needs to pay. A person's excuse trying to blame their brain as being crazy is much like you trying to blame the tool you so commonly try to blame, A Gun. Or some specific type of Gun.
     
  12. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Eh ?
     
  13. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    I think both sides of this argument of why the guy in CT, did what he did, are taking the wrong path. Purposely, because they DO NOT know the answer. They both want to blame some codified simple tool for the reason behind this @$$hole doing what he did. One side is blaming the Gun, the other is blaming the Brain. It's neither. Obviously.
     
  14. charros93

    charros93 Puget Sound Active Member

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    I think even the ones that do evil don't even know "why" they do it. Fact is blaming won't bring anyone back. People are so feeble minded I swear. Anyone remember No Country For Old Men? You cant stop whats coming.

    Clearly people are acquiring what they can, while they still can. Long time shooters as well as those new to the sport. There is much uncertainty right now as we all know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  15. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Part of successful reasoning lies in proper understanding of the opposing argument. I am not sure where you heard that stuff about blame being put on the gun. Most anti-gun theories related to this (and similar) incident are that the gun facilitated his actions, and should he had a harder time to obtain one, it may never had happen, or at least without so many casualties.
     
  16. shooter58

    shooter58 Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    So if the data showed an increase in crime / violence would you say that data supported the anti-gun argument?
     
  17. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    It would still be the same conclusion, that there is not enough information to link the two.
     
  18. shooter58

    shooter58 Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    It's not my burden to figure out why evil people do evil things. It is my burden to understand that evil people will do evil things and my burden to decide to protect myself and other good people.
     
  19. shooter58

    shooter58 Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    Then I can't argue with that.
     
  20. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Look at it this way. You want to circle around and act like you are getting further away (spin). You say if he had a harder time obtaining that specific gun, what happened or "worse" would not have happened. You are blaming the tool then that was used by this specific type of guy (citizen), BUT, Imagine this, NOT the same tool when it is used by those you approve of. Which is not other civilians. But only an 'Authority' such as the U.S Government & all other Governments wish to claim with the U.N agenda.

    You're faith & loyalty was proven when you first spoke up against someone that did not do what this guy did (every other civilian), yet excused your desire to take away from those that did not do what this guy did. You exempt the police & other internal (they claim) 'needed' UN approved employees. After all if this tool was made harder to obtain for all other's except your approved 'authorities', what possibly would be the worst to happen. That has NOT already happened in the history of Governments? (Except it HAS happened, IE the Worse)). The slow processing within your brain, is causing you to not see immediately, what is known immediately & that is your own stupidity.