The NRA Strikes Again

Messages
424
Reactions
41
OP
Teufel_Hunden
Messages
424
Reactions
41
What a wonderful bunch of excuses for them to not do the job they claim to be doing.

With all due respects I hope you guys are right. But, from my perspective they are ever more wishy washy!

Bag on the NRA all you want, just know they are one of the few things between you and the 2A.
Maybe they could act like it!

They are kind of like the Republican party. They've left their base and move ever nearer the center.

T_H
 
Messages
712
Reactions
170
Let's say you put yourself in charge of life on the planet. Let's say that one of your goals was the domination of all people on the planet. Let's say that firearms in the hands of peasants stood in the way of the accomplishment of that goal. Let's say that you anticipated the formation of an organization that would protect the rights of the peasants to posess firearms. Let's say that a smart guy might beat the peasants to the punch by creating or taking over such an organization. Let's say that this little exercise might explain a lot of what we see happening as regards the NRA. Do just enough good to remain credible to prevent the formation of a real organization, then fold like a stack of cards at strategic times. The formal term for this tactic is "controlled opposition". A smart guy might... Just sayin'
 
Messages
1,211
Reactions
616
Let's say you put yourself in charge of life on the planet. Let's say that one of your goals was the domination of all people on the planet. Let's say that firearms in the hands of peasants stood in the way of the accomplishment of that goal. Let's say that you anticipated the formation of an organization that would protect the rights of the peasants to posess firearms. Let's say that a smart guy might beat the peasants to the punch by creating or taking over such an organization. Let's say that this little exercise might explain a lot of what we see happening as regards the NRA. Do just enough good to remain credible to prevent the formation of a real organization, then fold like a stack of cards at strategic times. The formal term for this tactic is "controlled opposition". A smart guy might... Just sayin'
Sounds like what happened to that AARP too.
 
Messages
1,352
Reactions
755
While the NRA does do well in the political arena, I think that they need to get more involved in the COURT cases and not just by filing amicus briefs.

Heller v DC was a SAF case, and the NRA didn't want to get involved. McDonald v Chicago was, again, a SAF case that incorporated the 2nd Amendment under the 14th, meaning that what we all believed was the law of the land....

I don't have much left of my soldier's shilling every month, so what little I have needs to go where it is going to do the most good...right now I believe that that is with the SAF....
 
Messages
3,753
Reactions
615
While the NRA does do well in the political arena, I think that they need to get more involved in the COURT cases and not just by filing amicus briefs.

Heller v DC was a SAF case, and the NRA didn't want to get involved. McDonald v Chicago was, again, a SAF case that incorporated the 2nd Amendment under the 14th, meaning that what we all believed was the law of the land....

I don't have much left of my soldier's shilling every month, so what little I have needs to go where it is going to do the most good...right now I believe that that is with the SAF....
As much as I support the NRA, I really can't disagree with your sentiment. If you have to chose, if you aren't going to support the NRA, supporting SAF is a great alternative.
 
Messages
6,597
Reactions
19,150
Here are three provisions that Congress took up this week and extended for four years:

• Roving wiretaps. This provision gives intelligence officials authority to conduct surveillance on terrorist suspects regardless of how many communication devices they use (such as cellphones or the Internet). Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court. Law-enforcement agencies have been able to use wiretaps for criminal investigations since 1986.

• Business records. Another provision allows access to business records in cases involving terrorism, foreign intelligence, or espionage, with approval of a federal judge.

• Lone wolf. In 2004, Congress amended the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to authorize intelligence gathering on individuals not affiliated with any known terrorist organization, with a sunset date to correspond with the Patriot Act provisions. The provision, which is thus technically not part of the Patriot Act, is explicit in saying it does not to apply to US citizens.
Reading the 3 provisions, I have to wonder what portion applies to guns and/or American gun ownership?

Certainly not #3 as that concerns people not of U.S. citizenship. Maybe their own country's version of the NRA should take that one up.

#2? Hmmm, that one involves terrorism and foreign intelligence and or espionage. Then there's the "approval of a federal judge." The time to take that one on is when it comes before the judge.
Lobbying money only goes so far, whereas the equivalent $$$ would go a lot farther in legal fees.
Congress critters/criminals are EXPENSIVE!

While #1 is disturbing, the requirement of the federal court again speaks to where to spend your $$$. Then there is the "Law-enforcement agencies have been able to use wiretaps for criminal investigations since 1986" aspect. While I disagree with much of The Patriot Act, this will go on with or without TPA.

I really don't see this as a fight the NRA could, or even should fight. I believe their time, efforts and membership dollars are better spent elsewhere.

Like defeating chucky schumer, babs boxer, di feinstein et al.
 
Messages
1,079
Reactions
1,060
  • Howdy Y'all
  • Coast Guard
  • National Rifle Association
Reading the 3 provisions, I have to wonder what portion applies to guns and/or gun ownership?

Certainly not #3 as that concerns people not of U.S. citizenship. Maybe their own country's version of the NRA should take that one up.

#2? Hmmm, that one involves terrorism and foreign intelligence and or espionage. Then there's the "approval of a federal judge." The time to take that one on is when it comes before the judge.
Lobbying money only goes so far, whereas the equivalent $$$ would go a lot farther in legal fees.
Congress critters/criminals are EXPENSIVE!

While #1 is disturbing, the requirement of the federal court again speaks to where to spend your $$$. Then there is the "Law-enforcement agencies have been able to use wiretaps for criminal investigations since 1986" aspect. While I disagree with much of The Patriot Act, this will go on with or without TPA.

I really don't see this as a fight the NRA could, or even should fight. I believe their time, efforts and membership dollars are better spent elsewhere.

Like defeating chucky schumer, babs boxer, di feinstein et al.
It was an amendment regarding access to gun records that was the issue.


elsie
 
Messages
1,142
Reactions
300
I believe that if you analyze something long enough you can find problems with it. I don't usually agree with what the NRA does but I'm ok with any group that supports my 2nd amendment rights.
 
I'll guarantee you the NRA knew that amendment was going nowhere before the vote was even taken. Why throw your support to legislation that you know doesn't have a prayer of passing and then hand a perceived victory to the anti's over the NRA when it doesn't? The NRA was smart not to support it.
I seem to recall a Bible passage about a guy who would deny Jesus three times before the Cock crowed or something like that. This seems to be a similar denial, no rationalization needed. Pick their battles ?....everytime seems right to me.
 
Messages
1,281
Reactions
213
It was an amendment regarding access to gun records that was the issue.


elsie
The access to gun records sure gets a lot of folks stirred up. Personally I don't get it, as a FFL holder I have to keep records of everything that i buy and sell, BATF&E can look at these anytime they desire. As long as I keep my records correct I get no grief from them. I think they can get more ownership info just monitoring gun forums;)
 
Messages
5,050
Reactions
1,315
The NRA CAREFULLY selects the cases it supports. In fact the reason the Heller case didn't get their support was because it wasn't narrow enough, but once they saw it was going before SCOTUS they threw their whole weight behind it. The latest 1st Freedom explains their stance and gives examples of cases that have gone against the 2nd Amendment just because the attorney wasn't versed in how to defend his client.

Borrow a copy and read it!!

8 US Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

80 MILLION law abiding gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member
 
OP
Teufel_Hunden
Messages
424
Reactions
41
Well the debate is interesting those coming out feeling like myself that the NRA is watered down and part of the political machine rather than actually fighting for 2A rights period and others that support them and follow right over the cliff.

For me I like the OFF approach. Gun rights, "No Comprimise".

I'm more likely to spend my money with groups who aren't talking out both sides of their mouth!

T_H
 

Dave Workman

Messages
3,359
Reactions
2,900
While the NRA does do well in the political arena, I think that they need to get more involved in the COURT cases and not just by filing amicus briefs.

Heller v DC was a SAF case, and the NRA didn't want to get involved. McDonald v Chicago was, again, a SAF case that incorporated the 2nd Amendment under the 14th, meaning that what we all believed was the law of the land....

I don't have much left of my soldier's shilling every month, so what little I have needs to go where it is going to do the most good...right now I believe that that is with the SAF....

Well, to set the record straight:
Heller was NOT a SAF case. That one was done by Robert Levy and CATO

McDonald was a SAF case...funded by SAF. NRA had its own case that was not accepted for review by SCOTUS and so they managed to get some argument time during McDonald.

SAF now has about 20 different federal lawsuits filed in several states, Illinois, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, yada yada yada...
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Rifle
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Gun Show
Battleground Community Center
912 E Main St, Battle Ground, WA 98604, USA
Albany Rifle & Pistol Club (ARPC) Gun Show
Linn County Expo Center
3700 Knox Butte Rd E, Albany, OR 97322, USA

LATEST RESOURCE REVIEWS

  • Copeland Custom Gunworks
    5.00 star(s)
    1911 guru!
    Tim Copeland rebuilt and refreshed an old Colt 1911 Gold Cup for me that needed all new springs, new extractor & replaced a loose ejector. Found...
    • Knute
  • 36 Pit
    4.00 star(s)
    Went here this morning. This was my first time shooting on public land in Oregon. The guys from Trash No Land were there as well as other...
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Good prices, interesting items
    I like taking a drive through farm country to this spot... nice selection.
    • kbf64
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Good Friday!
    Had a great first time visit that included a transfer, a special order, and some trading. Can't wait to come back! Also I realized after I got...
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Upstanding Vendor!
    Have worked with this business twice and both times were outstanding! Will definitely keep going to him when I'm up in that area! Shoot, will...
Top Bottom