The "News" reports "arsenal" in San Bernadino...

[etrain16]

The way we're, apparently, headed it WILL be! Though you won't be able to sell it legally.

I'm getting so sick of the discussion here, nothing but depressing. There doesn't seem to be anything happy, no good news, no reporters in the MSM getting things correct. They're always embellishing things to make everything sound foreboding and dire.

"Arsenal" my @ss, "Thousands of Bullets" my @ss!

It is depressing, isn't it? The fact that we constantly have to be on the defensive against these folks. That we constantly have to justify our 'rights' to people that think we shouldn't have them. That we constantly have to endure slander about our character. That we constantly have to endure half-truths, misinformation and all out lies. That we are constantly threatened by our own government and many of the voters in this country. Yes, that is very depressing.

 

[Kid@Heart]

FOX news reporter just tried to make a "follow the money" argument saying that the shooters had spent $30K on their guns and ammo. HTF did they come up with that number from a couple entry level ARs, a couple common pistols, and a couple thousand rounds of ammunition made up of mostly 22lr?

My "arsenal" must be worth millions.

A dozen or so pipe bombs must be worth $25,000, (Including shipping).

 

[tionico]

I am very tired of anyone with more than a clip full of ammo being declared as having an arsenal any time a story like this is reported on. It's ignorant of the reality of anyone who is a responsible firearms enthusiast. They lead non-firearm owners into thinking 2000 rnds is unreasonable, and is an indicator of lack of sanity. If a responsible gun owners defend themselves, and idiot DA's find out about their 'Arsenal', maybe he can get a quick conviction for a crime that didn't happen, to help his record. After all, guns are evil.

Every time these idiots spend days glamorizing these events, it becomes very hard to find ammo. If you shoot recreationally, 2000 rnds is not a lot of ammo, considering you need to get through the droughts, and buy in bulk to try and reduce the always rising cost of ammo, and usually save on shipping costs.

It is absolutely dishonest to blame guns, or lack of gun control laws for these type of events. Firearms themselves may be the means, but the motivation is the crap storm of coverage and fame companies like CNN give these nuts in search of the extra set of eyes and the ad dollar that comes with it. It's like blaming pipes for the dope trade and not the demand caused by the users.

In addition, they rarely point out the fact that many of these guns were not legally obtained. So what did the gun laws do for us?

I do like how in the public's mind, if the motivation is terrorism, then we should buy more guns to protect ourselves, but if the motivation is lunacy, we need stricter gun laws. That makes it funny to watch the BS tap dance the government is doing to try and not call it terrorism, or radical islam.

Well, some folks stock up on things like beans, diesel fuel, matches, candles, flashlights, firewood, silver.... against the day when that item is either not available or the price has risen so high its not too afordable. Two thousand runds of handgun ammo is't really much. Idiots that try to convince you it is need to be reminded of the BILLIONS of rounds our FedGov have bought in the past two years or so.... and one of their "rationales" is that by buying in quantity, and well ahead of delivery orders, they save money. And they have...... until you factor in the number of armed agents they have and should not, and/or the fact they are now swtiching from .40 S&W to 9 x 19... so they'll have to go buy another few billion. Nice they've got bottomless pockets, eh? Oh wait, those are OUR pockets and they sure ai't bottomless.

Bottom line is the press are never letting a chance go by to take another whack at we who value our right to arms. Anything to stir up baseless emotions.

 

[tionico]

Wasn't Seattle going to tax ammo @ 5 cents a round.. for the children?

they were, until someone pointed out that anyone wanting such things in Seattle will very easily drive ten minutes and go to Federal Way, Burien Renton, Bellevue....... thus not only depriving Seattle from their extra hoped for cut, but the rest of the cut they are already getting. As to the extra fee for purchasing a specific item, that didn't pass muster with state laws... can't put a special tax like that on one class of items at the city level. The sales tax was dicey enough.. a case could have been made to call that illegal. But an added "fee" for the purchase of a special item? They've already lost a couple of lawsuits brought by the State on gun related issues. Cost them a boatload of money, and they lost.. all the way to the Supreme COurt. State firearms laws preempt all local.

 

[PDX1953]

Did anyone see the guy interviewed on Fox who said "Manufacturers get around the semi-automatic limit by putting a bullet button on the (AR) guns. Pressing it makes them fully automatic." I had to watch the clip a couple of times to make sure I heard him correctly. It's misinformation like this that anti's and people who aren't familiar with guns take as gospel. Once it's in their minds there's no way to replace it with the truth.

After watching it I fully understand why Elvis shot his television.

 

[tionico]

Did anyone see the guy interviewed on Fox who said "Manufacturers get around the semi-automatic limit by putting a bullet button on the (AR) guns. Pressing it makes them fully automatic." I had to watch the clip a couple of times to make sure I heard him correctly. It's misinformation like this that anti's and people who aren't familiar with guns take as gospel. Once it's in their minds there's no way to replace it with the truth.

After watching it I fully understand why Elvis shot his television.

No, but I've heard other "reporters" (dreamers? Compulsive liars? And to think they want to silence "non-authorised" media....... no question why) accuse the manufacturers of "cheating", and the gun buyers deliberately buying the "cheat" which really breaks the "heart" of the law. Sorry, Mikey, but when that stupid state passes a stupider law, they spell things out very clearly. When the manufacturers put their thinking caps on and figure out a way to provide a product people want AND make it comply with the letter of the law (there IS no other requirement but the letter) the state have no authority to condemn them. Don't like it? Change the law.

Of course, this dimwit does present an interesting technical and lagal challenge... figure out how to put such a bullet button on a Bushmaster and YOU could become a multimillionaire in about three weeks.

 

[Hardcore46]

Its such bs they were talking on the news tonight about their massive firepower? They had 2 handguns and 2 rifles!. They also talk about ammo as though it is gonna magically kill people all by it self! Damn, what an arsenal!.
Also all said, reports claim they fired a total of approximately 160 rounds and killed and wounded many yet it took 23 cops firing 380 rounds to take them out in a non armoured vehicle out in the open?.

Terminating a threat that is inside a vehicle (even an unarmored one) is not an instantaneous process. If the officers were shooting 5.56 or .223, those 55-62 gr projectiles are not optimum for penetrating the stouter parts of the vehicle. They were also apparently taking fire, which may affect their aim. Another consideration were i in such a situation is the known or suspected presence of IEDs, either PBIEDs or VBIEDs. Putting a larger number of rounds into the car increases the odds of complete incapacitation of the terrorists, hopefully preventing them from triggering a bomb. I am more concerned about how many rounds fired by the officers missed ((if any) the target.

 

[jim97701]

Exactly, where did all those strays go? Seems all the cops shoot to excess but if you or I did to stop a friggin terrorist we'd be accused of overkill and having an arsenal. Seems that lately the friggin cops use the spray and pray method and to damn with innocents that may be near.

 

[tionico]

Terminating a threat that is inside a vehicle (even an unarmored one) is not an instantaneous process. If the officers were shooting 5.56 or .223, those 55-62 gr projectiles are not optimum for penetrating the stouter parts of the vehicle. They were also apparently taking fire, which may affect their aim. Another consideration were i in such a situation is the known or suspected presence of IEDs, either PBIEDs or VBIEDs. Putting a larger number of rounds into the car increases the odds of complete incapacitation of the terrorists, hopefully preventing them from triggering a bomb. I am more concerned about how many rounds fired by the officers missed ((if any) the target.

If this incident was anywhere near the averages reported bu the FBI in officer involved shootings, about twenty percent hit their mark..... anywhere. HOWEVER, this scenario may well be different. Seems the local police and sheriffs who were on that incident are far better trained than the averages. They VERY QUICKLY located the suspects and took decisive action to neutralise them, and it is known that their standards of training are much higher than normal for local LE. I'd guess their "hit rate' was far higher than FBI's reported averages.
You raise some excellent considerations to explain the high round count. As thorough and efficient as these guys were, it is reasonable to fire well over the bare minimum. Another consideration might be that these \perps already had demonstrated a high level of motivation, planning, and efficiency. far wiser/safer to fire five hundred rounds and be SURE than fire fifty and find out via three dead officers that they had just chilled for long enough to make LE think they were dead..... then open fire again when LE are tricked and vulnerable.

I wonder about their SWATs, though.. don't those teams generally have "the big guns"? >30 cal armour piercing, incendiaries, even BMG 50 AP?

 

[PDX1953]

What amazes me is when police miss their target even after a high number of shots. In the stairwell of a building in 1999, four NYPD fired 41 shots at Amadou Diallo & hit him 19 times. It was a very confined area & quite literally a case of overkill. They were all charged but eventually acquitted of murder but I'm not sure justice was done in that case. They were part of a Street Crimes unit that consisted of a lot of "cowboys" and it was immediately disbanded after the incident.

Many years ago I read an article that compared gun battles between trained civilians vs. criminals and police vs. criminals. The civilians scored significantly higher than the police and the criminals came in, no pun intended, dead last. Fortunately I've never been in a firefight & only once ever pointed a gun in self defense. I hope I'll never be in that situation again but carry a gun daily & practice as often as I can.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I am very tired of anyone with more than a clip full of ammo being declared as having an arsenal any time a story like this is reported on. It's ignorant of the reality of anyone who is a responsible firearms enthusiast. They lead non-firearm owners into thinking 2000 rnds is unreasonable, and is an indicator of lack of sanity. If a responsible gun owners defend themselves, and idiot DA's find out about their 'Arsenal', maybe he can get a quick conviction for a crime that didn't happen, to help his record. After all, guns are evil.

Every time these idiots spend days glamorizing these events, it becomes very hard to find ammo. If you shoot recreationally, 2000 rnds is not a lot of ammo, considering you need to get through the droughts, and buy in bulk to try and reduce the always rising cost of ammo, and usually save on shipping costs.

It is absolutely dishonest to blame guns, or lack of gun control laws for these type of events. Firearms themselves may be the means, but the motivation is the crap storm of coverage and fame companies like CNN give these nuts in search of the extra set of eyes and the ad dollar that comes with it. It's like blaming pipes for the dope trade and not the demand caused by the users.

In addition, they rarely point out the fact that many of these guns were not legally obtained. So what did the gun laws do for us?

I do like how in the public's mind, if the motivation is terrorism, then we should buy more guns to protect ourselves, but if the motivation is lunacy, we need stricter gun laws. That makes it funny to watch the BS tap dance the government is doing to try and not call it terrorism, or radical islam.

Don't you know that the media knows the difference, they just report their gun hating blasphemy.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Wasn't Seattle going to tax ammo @ 5 cents a round.. for the children?

Yes and a $50 tax on a gun... for the children? No, it was specified for the cost of gunshot victims at local hospitals. Yep, the law abiding gun owners Seattle area are being held hostage and are liable for the acts of criminals!!!!!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Pardon me, where can I get one of these "assault weapons" the liberal media keep promoting? I sure want one of them there fancy Assault Weapons! My AR-15 and Other Battle rifles could sure learn a thing or three from them! Why in the heck is it that every single time the bad guys always have "Assault Rifles" but the responding authorities all have "tactical response weapons" which are the same bloody thing with a selector switch to help keep us just that little bit safer ! Last time I checked, My M-1 Garand was a lot more powerful then any one of these Fancy fangled assault rifles, and is California compliant due to only holding an 8 round clip! Can any body say FALSE FLAG??? Tell the bad guys to come here and I will wispier in there ear the last words they will ever hear! Instead of meeting thee almighty Allah, they will be staring into the face of an old grizzled Master Chief wandering where there virgins are!!!

 

[nwslopoke]

I love it when the media say a "bullet button" or any other device makes a gun, MORE deadly.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

This is where we are headed. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-facing-jail--having-large-cache-bullets.html

 

[Doc In UPlace]

I wouldn't give reporters much credit for knowing better about guns. They really are ignorant for the most part, many are proud of their lack of knowledge in this arena, and usually care very little about accuracy in their stories.

How do I know this? I've been inside several incidents which were covered by the media, and the inaccuracies and misinformation coming from the reporters was astonishing. It read as though we were at different scenes completely. Most police will tell you this but have to keep quiet about it.

A friend of mine jokes about his somewhat impressive variety and quantity of guns and ammo -and what a big deal the press would make of it, if they had an excuse to include it in a story.

But really it's just pitiful and sad that things are this way, and is only funny in an ironic sense.