The military is finally catching on

[American123]

Marines field new rifle optic for better accuracy, hit probability

Infantry and recon Marines will get it first.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

LPVO's have been all the rage for a while, looks like they will start adopting them into service.

I remember watching a documentary where marines in Afghanistan were engaging enemies tucked into a rocky hillside more than 600 yards away with red dots and 5.56 while the enemy was returning fire with machine gun .30 caliber rounds. It did not look like a great combination, seemed like some good magnification could have made a big difference.

Read More

 

[308]

Trijicon got the contract. Shocker

 

[GOG]

Good.

 

[zcap]

I believe the SCO is a variant of 1-8x VCOG. Unless Trijicon made changes to the military version, it is not daylight bright and weighs twice as much as the 4x ACOG it is replacing. Personally, I would take an ACOG with RDS or an Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x, both of which are over a decade old and already part of SOPMOD, over a VCOG for most carbine uses.

 

[sealine]

That thing weighs 31.5 ounces!

 

[Member 53328]

That thing weighs 31.5 ounces!

No joke! I'd rather have the ACOG or irons. That's just more weight. Throw that on a 16" M16 variant. No thanks. Glad I didn't have to deal with that.

 

[Nosferatu]

Looks like they'll be doing more push ups in boot camp.

 

[Member 53328]

Looks like they'll be doing more push ups in boot camp.

Now days..... probably less. Less physical, more weight. It will play out in the end. More bed time stories though. Haha.

 

[American123]

Seems like a lot of people here (who might have experience) are focusing on the weight.

Did any of you experience a situation where more magnification in your optic would have made a difference?

There are definitely LPVO that weigh less, that's for sure.

 

[Member 53328]

Seems like a lot of people here (who might have experience) are focusing on the weight.

Did any of you experience a situation where more magnification in your optic would have made a difference?

I qualified with iron sights at 500 meters. I didn't use much of the acog until the end of my enlistment. I liked that optic though. It being small and all. The thing I see happening are short cuts. As technology increases the basic are no longer taught. Ask any recruit now how to run irons and they won't be able to answer. The standards are going down and the gear is going up. Personally I would rather go as light as possibly while maintaining the safety and preparedness. Magnification is nice for identifying threats, easier shots, etc. but I wouldn't want to be humping that all day. More stuff, more problems. Gear doesn't substitute the basics.

 

[E4mafia]

Not so much magnification being an issue as ROE and ISAF shackling us from unleashing our full power to stop threats that were known and easily exploiting striking us.
Gotta win hearts and minds vs the battle/war
Oh and bad intel...

Can't return fire unless you 100% know and are certain that guy who fired and then ran (squirters) into that house is still armed and even if they are firing from windows you are not allowed to shell the building without confirming it's hostile and it a school even though they would 1000% exploit this as if they knew how we operated.

Imagine going into a boxing ring or MMA fight with one hand tied behind your back and having to ask the ref if it's ok to fight back after getting hit.

 

[Member 53328]

Not so much magnification being an issue as ROE and ISAF shackling us from unleashing our full power to stop threats that were known and easily exploiting striking us.
Gotta win hearts and minds vs the battle/war
Oh and bad intel...

I thought we were supposed to fight fair.... lol.

 

[sealine]

The max effective range for a M16 on a point target is 550 meters. Would the extra magnification be nice? Sure, but to put it on a weapon that doesn't reach out that far seems kind of dumb. Especially when it weighs 3 times as much as a 4x ACOG.

 

[AK0perator47]

LPVO has been used by Spec Ops for quite awhile. Weight is not a factor like most people say. Reason why I say that is look at all the people that carry a SAW. I carried the M60e3 in the 90's and was no factor

 

[E4mafia]

I could hit. 300meter target with the M68 red dot and my irons.

The problem is having to ask "mother may I?" first. COIN is a sham and all these flashy new gadget don't mean dick if you can't use them because ROE or some other stupid process for maintaining PR as it's more important...

 

[GWS]

Lots of used ACOGs coming on to the market soon?

 

[zcap]

Seems like a lot of people here (who might have experience) are focusing on the weight.

Did any of you experience a situation where more magnification in your optic would have made a difference?

There are definitely LPVO that weigh less, that's for sure.

4x ACOGs have been in use for what, 30+ years now? The Elcan 1/4x has been around for at least a decade. It is not magnification, but LPVOs and the VCOG specifically that I would question since they appeal to military's tendency to start from multiple mission optimized tools and then later decide they want one thing that does all the things even if it does none of them well.

 

[Member 53328]

The max effective range for a M16 on a point target is 550 meters. Would the extra magnification be nice? Sure, but to put it on a weapon that doesn't reach out that far seems kind of dumb. Especially when it weighs 3 times as much as a 4x ACOG.

That's common sense though. And anyone who has spent time working for the government knows that virtue is generally absent.

 

[AK0perator47]

photo is over 5 years old so LPVO was used prior it's about time that the military is started implementing besides just spec ops

 

[Member 53328]

View attachment 832573
photo is over 5 years old so LPVO was used prior it's about time that the military is started implementing besides just spec ops

Yea but that's mike glover... and he is a bad a$$.