The lowly .380

[Member 52301]

Another question here please.

Don't most of the European police carry and shoot a .380 pistol and ONLY the military owns/shoots 9mm in Europe or did I remember an old story or post incorrectly from here or in my general WWWeb gun links?

I know that they carry and shoot different rifle calibers from what I remember.

Thanks again.

Cate

 

[nehalemguy]

Another question here please.

Don't most of the European police carry and shoot a .380 pistol and ONLY the military owns/shoots 9mm in Europe or did I remember an old story or post incorrectly from here or in my general WWWeb gun links?

I know that they carry and shoot different rifle calibers from what I remember.

Thanks again.

Cate

I don't know about other countries but the Italians traded in Beretta 81's in .32 ACP for Beretta 92's in 9mm. Germans have been using 9mm for many years as well.

-E-

 

[nammac]

Back in the 80s, shot a Sig P230 at a demo day. You are right. More recoil than one would expect. Might look for a Star or Llama 380, as they were locked breech, being a mini-1911. Colt Pony maybe.

Springfield 911 .380 fires from a locked breech too, not bad to shoot at all...

 

[Dinglenutz]

Springfield 911 .380 fires from a locked breech too, not bad to shoot at all...

My brother has a Browning 1911 in 380 that he loves, but it's not really compact as such.

 

[nammac]

Springfield 911 in .380

 

[kbf64]

why not a .38 sp +p revolver if you want a small carry?

 

[Medic!]

why not a .38 sp +p revolver if you want a small carry?

J frame S&W is not much smaller than a Glock 19.
And has that ridiculous wide cylinder to make fit.

Not to mention you can get 9mm handguns that hold more ammo in a much smaller package.

 

[FourTeeFive]

The S&W fires from a locked breech, as does the Keltec 3AT I believe. Also the Glock 42 and quite a few others.

Correct. The keywords being "medium-sized". I just bought a S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ for my wife and am anxious to try it out. Ideally I'd like something even a bit bigger with a 4" or longer barrel. Odd, yes, but something different to shoot.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Correct. The keywords being "medium-sized". I just bought a S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ for my wife and am anxious to try it out. Ideally I'd like something even a bit bigger with a 4" or longer barrel. Odd, yes, but something different to shoot.

1911-380 Black Label Pro Full Size

www.browning.com

1911-380 Black Label Compact

www.browning.com

 

[FourTeeFive]

1911-380 Black Label Pro Full Size

www.browning.com

Funny enough I was just checking that out last night! I'm not sure I can bring myself to buy a polymer-frame 1911-style pistol, but it is an interesting design.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Funny enough I was just checking that out last night! I'm not sure I can bring myself to buy a polymer-frame 1911-style pistol, but it is an interesting design.

My brother has one, he loves it, I've shot it, it's great. Don't know which of the many variants he has but it's one of the "full size" ones. The full size isn't full size, it's properly proportioned more or less but it's scaled down, I would say maybe 85% scale compared to a full on 1911.

It's a hoot to shoot at the range and so slim he actually carries it.

 

[FourTeeFive]

My brother has one, he loves it, I've shot it, it's great.

I definitely want to check it out. Surprising how light it is!

 

[raftman]

TBH I rarely carry anything larger than a .380. Anything more than that and I'd probably start having to dress around the gun and I just don't see that happening.

 

[leadcounsel]

Here's something I didn't see mentioned.

The average hardened criminal today is likely to be far bigger, stronger, and/or more athletic and certainly more aggressive than say 50 years ago. Lifting weights with better nutrition and supplements are also very very common today. Humans have just developed more. A 6'5" 280 lb linebacker built thug was probably a rarity in the 1960s, or he was playing sports somewhere. [Look at the thug Michael Brown, for example, from Ferguson. He was 18 years old, 6'4" tall, and weighed 292 and was very mobile and used his size aggressively. It took at least 6 shots to drop Brown, including two shots to the head. And Brown's DNA was on the cops gun, and the cop suffered injuries, supporting the fact that Brown was an aggressor who was going to the cop's gun.] Today, that size/build is not uncommon. Further, the average hardened criminal probably has access to decent weaponry and ammo today as well, which means you better make your shots count and work fast. And hard street drugs we commonly see today that make people fight with irrational rage didn't exist or weren't widely available yester-year. The potent combination is a more lethal and more resistant assailant.

So while it's nice to wax eloquently about old stats and how great these anemic calibers are, I have to draw the line at for me it's tough to rationalize a lesser ballistically capable round that offers no advantages in capacity or cost, such as the .380 or 9x18 Makarov. You typically have the same capacity as a 9x19, in ammo selections that are better and more cost efficient.

Shot placement is king, but caliber and ammo are queen. Why purposefully hamstring yourself?

For me, the two best options are .40 caliber and 9x19mm for overall performance, capacity, price, and availability. I'd put .357 Sig there except for price/availability. I see no need to pick a lesser caliber (9x18 or .380) nor do I see any rationale for losing capacity by picking the .45acp (a great performer, but poor capacity combined with high cost).

 

[Dinglenutz]

I like 357 Sig because I can reload it on about the same budget as 9x19. Also .... I like 357 Sig.

 

[leadcounsel]

Also adding that these little .380s are often found in snappy pocket guns, which makes them miserable to practice with, and that means accuracy will suffer. Then if folks step up to a bigger framed gun, it defeats the purpose in my view.

I suppose if you lack hand strength or are very recoil sensitive it would make sense but for the average adult it's not necessary.

 

[gryghin]

I still don't understand the "one caliber" mentality.

Are all of you only carrying one weapon?

Are you saying that your primary and B.U.G. are both the same caliber?

Why limit the protection to only one.

Hmm...

 

[po18guy]

50 or 75 years ago, there were no meth or crack heads. That makes a huge difference. On YouTube's Active Self Protection channel, I see a remarkable number of head shots during robberies. Their size matters far less if they take one in the cranium.

 

[leadcounsel]

Their size matters far less if they take one in the cranium.

Are you saying we should rely on headshots? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? While it does happen, like that famous church security team member (Jack Wilson) who stopped that mass shooting early on, for me, personally, I'm not relying on that level of skill and luck. It should be noted that Wilson was using a .357 Sig fired from a Sig P229.

 

[CountryGent]

These threads are always hilarious. As to summer silliness ... how about a 9㎜ Corto playing peekaboo among the greenery?