The lowly .380

[CLT65]

Love to have that round in a small, short barrel rifle.

Can you imagine a tiny little Tommy gun in 2.7mm?

 

[nehalemguy]

I was hoping someone would post that.

I think this chart is interesting:
View attachment 723065
If we think about these cartridges in terms of kick -- this would move the .357 to the right of .45ACP in my opinion, it seems that at a certain high kick high power range, the one shot stop percentage gets better, probably due to the fact that getting hit with something of high power anywhere is going to do a ton of damage. The one shot stop sort of bottoms out at 9mm which doesn't have a ton of kick, but doesn't have the kind of actual power a shotgun has either. Then the one shot stop percentage starts rising again in .380 and .32 -- I would guess this is because it easier to be accurate with a gun that doesn't kick so much, then falls off again when you get into the actual rat killing calibers.

Anyway, I'm 100% comfortable carrying a .380 based on the stats.

Hell yeah! .32 ACP for the win!

-E-

 

[nammac]

Hell yeah! .32 ACP for the win!

-E-

Now I gotta go find a Seecamp .32 ACP....

 

[CLT65]

The flip side is the "people who were not incapacitated", which does vary wildly with caliber. However for calibers 380 and up it's not a huge difference, around 1 in 8 or so, but for 22, 25, and 32 you start seeing odds around 1 in 3 of the person not being incapacitated at all.

Exactly! The first chart seems to indicate that pipsqueak calibers are about as good at stopping someone as the bigger guns like 9mm and .45acp, but that next chart shows the other side of it. What the first chart tells me is that most attackers will be stopped by anything. It's the "OMG I've Been Shot!" effect. They can even kill, though less reliably so. It's that smaller percentage of truly determined attackers where the increased horsepower of the larger rounds comes into play. Against someone who's not intimidated by an innate fear of being shot, the tiny rounds are simply unreliable.

Some people insist that .25s and .32s are completely worthless, that you might as well throw rocks because a bad guy will just shrug off those little bullets as little more than bee stings, and just keep coming and hurt you worse out of anger.

Well, clearly that isn't the case for most incidents, but for a hard-core assailant who's not afraid of getting shot, that just might very well be accurate.

 

[FourTeeFive]

This whole conversation got me so worked up about 380 pistols that I had to buy this when I saw the price. It's a 1995 Colt Mk IV Series 80 Government 380.

25 years ago I bought a Colt Mustang and sent it to Scott/McDougall for their full meal deal work on it. Dehorned, tuned, etc. I ended up selling the gun and have missed it ever since. This is a nicer gun than the Mustang. Will just clean and lube it up. Looks like it hasn't seen oil in ages. Got it for $419.99 which is a steal.



Now I'll sell my Sig P232 which I haven't shot in years.

 

[Dinglenutz]

What the first chart tells me is that most attackers will be stopped by anything.

Yes, I think that's it, probably a spectrum. There were likely a lot of attackers who didn't even need to be shot to be convinced, some probably stopped just because, before any tussle even started, some maybe stopped at the first show of resistance, others probably found the sight of a pistol a convincing argument. Then we get into the ones who for whatever reason needed shot, and we get this data. This also is likely a spectrum, with some rethinking it about the time the trigger was squeezed all the way to some who had to actually be rendered unconscious.

Few people are going to be able to carry a loaded 12 ga, so it's all a matter of the odds, what is possible in each scenario, etc.

That's why I've settled on an always/backup gun and the other "real" carry. I just want to stack the odds in my favor as best possible in as many situations as possible. That includes trying really hard to avoid situations that might lead to being one of those statistics. But if that happens, I want to be the one telling the story after.

 

[Soren]

Bersa makes a similar looking gun, probably to ride the enthusiasm for the PPK. Bersa has some feeding problems with some hollow points and is not the quality (or $) of the PPK.

As someone that owns a PPK, a PPK/S and a couple Bersa Thunder .380s, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I haven't had any issues running any kind of ammo through the Bersas. When it comes to shooting them, because of the more snappy recoil of the Walthers, I would rather pick up the Bersas, I can shoot those all day without my hands hurting. A couple magazines through the Walthers and the palm of my hand starts to feel sore.
A lot of people think that the design of the Bersa Thunder .380 is a copy of the Walther PPK/S, but it's not. The original design of the Thunder .380 has a lot more in common with the Beretta 70. Which makes sense since the guys that founded Bersa use to be designers and engineers at Beretta.
Anyway, the Bersa Thunder .380 is really good, reliable, comfortable, accurate handgun that you get a lot more value out of it than what they cost.

 

[soberups]

J frame S&W is not much smaller than a Glock 19.
And has that ridiculous wide cylinder to make fit.

Not to mention you can get 9mm handguns that hold more ammo in a much smaller package.

I carry a Ruger LCR (which is the same size as a J-frame) in a pocket holster in my front pocket. It is far smaller and lighter than my Glock 19 or my Glock 26. A good .38+P JHP is far superior to any .380 round and pretty close to a 9mm in terms of effectiveness. Granted it only holds 5 rounds but for me the absolute reliability and ease of use of a revolver is worth the tradeoff.

 

[bentoncity]

Concealed Carry? Maybe not but what a b*ut load of fun.

Dan

 

[Captain O]

I have carried the .32 ACP and the .32 H&R Magnum. My European Police turn-in .32 ACP has sufficient barrel to dump enough rounds and energy (under stress) to cover the area of a teacup at 21 feet.

It works for me.

 

[SUPER X]

I think I noticed in this thread some tempted to put the corto in roughly the same class as the 9mm since "it's the same dia bullet and all and only a little lighter".
Just remember velocity is squared.. a good 9mm load makes 500fpe +.
[/QUOTE

I dont see it anymore but there was 9x19 with a 95gr fmj projectile out at one time . Might be a good roll your own recipes.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I hard cast the Lee 105 gr SWC and load that in .380.. it's kinda like the $2 ea Lehigh stuff.. for about $1.25/100.

 

[PaulB47]

For pure utility, mouse guns are not bad. I think it's something like 70% or 80% of thugs run away if you just pull a pistol? They don't stop to see what caliber you are carrying.

The problem with a mouse gun is if you ever need to shoot one. Not only is the .380 a weak sister, but those tiny guns are hard to handle and shoot well.

I have a Ruger LC9S which is small and light enough and powerful enough and didn't cost much and it's got a great trigger and I can put rounds on target with ease. Why go with anything smaller?

 

[Pete F]

As someone that owns a PPK, a PPK/S and a couple Bersa Thunder .380s, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I haven't had any issues running any kind of ammo through the Bersas. When it comes to shooting them, because of the more snappy recoil of the Walthers, I would rather pick up the Bersas, I can shoot those all day without my hands hurting. A couple magazines through the Walthers and the palm of my hand starts to feel sore.
A lot of people think that the design of the Bersa Thunder .380 is a copy of the Walther PPK/S, but it's not. The original design of the Thunder .380 has a lot more in common with the Beretta 70. Which makes sense since the guys that founded Bersa use to be designers and engineers at Beretta.
Anyway, the Bersa Thunder .380 is really good, reliable, comfortable, accurate handgun that you get a lot more value out of it than what they cost.

I was referring to the look of the Bersa compared to the PPK/s. I am glad that your Bersas are reliable. The issues with the Thunder seem to be around 2013 thru 2018 (Bersa Forums).

The Pachmayr grip keeps me at the range longer with my PPK/s. It is a snappy pistol, especially with the HSTs that I was running through it last range outing.

The Bersa Thunder 380 Plus looks interesting with a 15 round magazine.

Sorry for putting the Bersa down. I have a general rule not to make judgements on what people like or carry. I also kind of jumped on @westcoastal for his error on 007's gun used in the films - also sorry. It must have been a bad day.

With that said, I still prefer to depend on my PPK/s as a concealed carry over any other .380's out there.

 

[Laughingman]

I am partial to the Beretta Cheetah series and Browning 1911-380 pistols... They feel like actual pistols, have real sights (at least the recent production ones). I imagine they sell Oodlles of them in caliber restricted countries...

 

[bentoncity]

TOP--13 rnds/380(pretty heavy) VS 7 rnds/9mm(pretty light)

Dan

 

[westcoastal]

I was referring to the look of the Bersa compared to the PPK/s. I am glad that your Bersas are reliable. The issues with the Thunder seem to be around 2013 thru 2018 (Bersa Forums).

The Pachmayr grip keeps me at the range longer with my PPK/s. It is a snappy pistol, especially with the HSTs that I was running through it last range outing.

The Bersa Thunder 380 Plus looks interesting with a 15 round magazine.

Sorry for putting the Bersa down. I have a general rule not to make judgements on what people like or carry. I also kind of jumped on @westcoastal for his error on 007's gun used in the films - also sorry. It must have been a bad day.

With that said, I still prefer to depend on my PPK/s as a concealed carry over any other .380's out there.

No worries. Didn't mean bond carried. Just that this is a solid similar pistol

 

[Wombat of Doom]

As someone that owns a PPK, a PPK/S and a couple Bersa Thunder .380s, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I haven't had any issues running any kind of ammo through the Bersas. When it comes to shooting them, because of the more snappy recoil of the Walthers, I would rather pick up the Bersas, I can shoot those all day without my hands hurting. A couple magazines through the Walthers and the palm of my hand starts to feel sore.
A lot of people think that the design of the Bersa Thunder .380 is a copy of the Walther PPK/S, but it's not. The original design of the Thunder .380 has a lot more in common with the Beretta 70. Which makes sense since the guys that founded Bersa use to be designers and engineers at Beretta.
Anyway, the Bersa Thunder .380 is really good, reliable, comfortable, accurate handgun that you get a lot more value out of it than what they cost.

I have a West German PPK. It is the gun I am fastest shooting. (Except for one that bumps easy, and the pre-86 properly papered sten.) I can empty the magazine into the 10 ring at 21 feet in around 2 seconds. It is a bit of a freak in that I normally can't make my fingers move that fast, but that Walther is something special. However, I got Mr Bond's caliber, the 7.65mm.

 

[NOC]

The Walther pp and ppk are very accurate and have the shortest reset I have ever encountered.

 

[Soren]

I have a West German PPK. It is the gun I am fastest shooting. (Except for one that bumps easy, and the pre-86 properly papered sten.) I can empty the magazine into the 10 ring at 21 feet in around 2 seconds. It is a bit of a freak in that I normally can't make my fingers move that fast, but that Walther is something special. However, I got Mr Bond's caliber, the 7.65mm.

The Walther pp and ppk are very accurate and have the shortest reset I have ever encountered.

I'm not bashing the PPK or PPK/S at all. I like them both. I just like the Bersa better.