The Liberal Gun Club

[rolandson]

The 3rd annual meeting of The Liberal Gun Club is being held in Portland this year, August 17 -19.

Announcements, membership and registration information can be found at:

The Liberal Gun Club

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[CharonPDX]

Looking forward to it! (Discounted range fee at The English Pit for the day, plus free gun rentals if you buy their ammo.)

 

[Ironbar]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you can be a liberal AND a gun enthusiast at the same time. The two are totally in conflict with one another as it is liberals who want to take away gun rights.

 

[Joe Link]

There are many conservatives out there who want to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. There's a reason this is a non-partisan site; we can't get caught up on all these labels. If Democrats can work inside their party to change the party stance on the 2nd Amendment, which they've been at least moderately successful at doing thus far, all of us gun owners are better off

I think I might attend, just to say hello.

 

[shibbershabber]

Agreed. Theres nothing like a dozen guys standing around with AR15s discussing how Obama isnt enough of a Socialist!

Lets not forget that as far as I can tell... the only forcible mass gun confiscation happened on GW Bush's watch. Im sure you can find the videos on youtube about the Katrina aftermath... anyone get their guns back?

Didnt think so.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Good! Maybe you guys can get together and write a few letters telling your Senators to oppose ratification of the U.N.'s Arms Trade Treaty!
Currently, Rep. Grijalva (D) AZ, is circulating a letter co-signed by a few of his leftist-legislator pals urging Clinton and Obama to support this disaster.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Lets not forget that as far as I can tell... the only forcible mass gun confiscation happened on GW Bush's watch. Im sure you can find the videos on youtube about the Katrina aftermath... anyone get their guns back?

Didnt think so.

"The only forcible mass gun confiscation" took place under orders from Democrat Governor Kathleen Blanco. The Commander in Chief of HER National Guard troops in LA.
Hurricane Katrina: National Guard - SourceWatch

"The guardsmen remain under their respective governors' control, which enables them to provide law-enforcement support in the affected regions -- something the Posse Comitatus Act prohibits active-duty forces from doing within the United States. While under state control, the National Guard is not bound by Posse Comitatus, NORTHCOM officials explained." [1]

A state's National Guard is ALWAYS under the primary command of the governor, unless that governor agrees to turn that command over to the prez or the Joint Chiefs.
Furthermore, they were assisting the New Orleans City Police under orders from Democrat mayor Ray Nagin.

GW ordered NG troops from around the U.S. to help with ancillary issues/tasks, but law enforcement fell under the purview of the governor.

 

[CharonPDX]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you can be a liberal AND a gun enthusiast at the same time. The two are totally in conflict with one another as it is liberals who want to take away gun rights.

I argue that being liberal means not controlling people - fighting for the betterment and rights of *ALL*, therefore gun rights *ARE* a liberal cause.

Yes, a majority of the people who are anti-gun are also liberal - but a majority of liberals are *NOT* anti-gun. (Sort of like how a majority of racists are conservative, but a majority of conservatives are not racist.)

And there are quite a few liberals who actively work to educate other liberals on gun rights. I have met with my State Senator a couple times, and while there is still a lot of work to do, I think she is finally at least understanding that there are liberal constituents of hers for whom gun rights are a big issue. Even if I never change her mind personally, I might at least convince her to lay off trying to pass anti-gun laws. (I have the misfortune of having the most anti-gun State Representative and State Senator in the state. Thankfully the Rep isn't running for re-election, and the near-guaranteed replacement is pro-gun.)

Jamie, yup, there are many of us working to oppose it - even though I personally believe that the treaty would be meaningless for our rights inside the U.S., better safe than sorry, right? Thankfully, of Oregon's delegation of four Democrats in the US House, three of them are against the treaty.

Joe, look forward to seeing you there!

 

[CharonPDX]

Yeah. What he said.

My favorite is the quote from P.J. O'Rourke:

The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it.

(He has other 'equally damning' quotes, too.)

 

[Joe Link]

I argue that being liberal means not controlling people - fighting for the betterment and rights of *ALL*, therefore gun rights *ARE* a liberal cause.

Yes, a majority of the people who are anti-gun are also liberal - but a majority of liberals are *NOT* anti-gun. (Sort of like how a majority of racists are conservative, but a majority of conservatives are not racist.)

And there are quite a few liberals who actively work to educate other liberals on gun rights. I have met with my State Senator a couple times, and while there is still a lot of work to do, I think she is finally at least understanding that there are liberal constituents of hers for whom gun rights are a big issue. Even if I never change her mind personally, I might at least convince her to lay off trying to pass anti-gun laws. (I have the misfortune of having the most anti-gun State Representative and State Senator in the state. Thankfully the Rep isn't running for re-election, and the near-guaranteed replacement is pro-gun.)

Jamie, yup, there are many of us working to oppose it - even though I personally believe that the treaty would be meaningless for our rights inside the U.S., better safe than sorry, right? Thankfully, of Oregon's delegation of four Democrats in the US House, three of them are against the treaty.

Joe, look forward to seeing you there!

I can most likely only attend the Lucky Lab portion, but it'll be good to meet everyone regardless.

Who's your senator, and who's replacing her?

 

[Simonpie]

It seems to me we will never elect Republicans in the NW corner of Oregon, but we might elect a few pro gun lefties. This would amount to a huge amount of pro gun power shift in the state. It all starts at the city/county level and could have immediate good benefits for the shooting crowd.

 

[strick]

I personally count myself as a pro-gun moderate Independent. Meaning I agree with some issues that are typically Democrat and some that are typical Republican, but can not stand either party right now, but not to get that rage going I will leave it at that. Does that count?? LOL

I too am wondering who charonpdx is refering too???

 

[PDXSparky]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you can be a liberal AND a gun enthusiast at the same time. The two are totally in conflict with one another as it is liberals who want to take away gun rights.

Does that mean I don't exist? I consider myself somewhat liberal AND I'm definitely a gun enthusiast. It isn't liberals who want to take away gun rights, it is anti-gun enthusiasts who do.

 

[strick]

Does that mean I don't exist? I consider myself somewhat liberal AND I'm definitely a gun enthusiast. It isn't liberals who want to take away gun rights, it is anti-gun enthusiasts who do.

I am right there too, it is the anti-gun nuts that wish to remove them, just happened that they tend to be liberal too.

 

[rolandson]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you can be a liberal AND a gun enthusiast at the same time. The two are totally in conflict with one another as it is liberals who want to take away gun rights.

Sorry that you see things in such deliberate light. I would argue that my existence as well is evidence that the two are not in conflict.

 

[slingshot1943]

When you vote and put anti gun people in office you are anti gun.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

When you vote and put anti gun people in office you are anti gun.

No, when someone votes for a political representative based on a single special interest they are a fool. If I live in a state where the most pressing concerns are education, employment, and infrastructure I am going to vote for the candidate that actually has a plan to deal with these three things. If they are anti-gun as well that can be dealt with in the courts at a later date where they will have precedent of law against them.

 

[locobob]

I don't categorize myself as a Liberal but I find little to like about the Republican platform anymore. I don't see any reason that the gun rights issue needs to be polarized by political party. We should strive to make every politician see it as a constitutional individual rights issue. Happy to see an effort being made in that regard and I'll consider attending.

 

[Joe Link]

I don't categorize myself as a Liberal but I find little to like about the Republican platform anymore. I don't see any reason that the gun rights issue needs to be polarized by political party. We should strive to make every politician see it as a constitutional individual rights issue. Happy to see an effort being made in that regard and I'll consider attending.

This is my belief exactly. We need to be working within both parties to make sure all of our constitutional rights are protected.

It annoys me how so many people refuse to give people credit for the things they do or did do right, even if they're at odds with the other 90%. Refusing to build bridges with people because they don't share the same beliefs and focusing on the negative will never get us anywhere. Though we disagree on almost everything, if Hugo Chavez himself came out in support of individual gun rights I'd personally shake his hand and welcome him to the cause.

We all need to understand and accept that people's politics can change, and do quite often. Usually it's due them learning the facts of an issue, reviewing the empirical data, and coming to a different conclusion. I can *almost guarantee* that when people have a major change in political ideology it's not because they were being attacked or insulted for their current beliefs, but rather because a friend whom they respect presented the data to them and had a civilized conversation.

This combativeness has got to stop, especially when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues.

 

[CharonPDX]

Who's your senator, and who's replacing her?

I too am wondering who charonpdx is refering too???

The State Senator is Ginny Burdick, who is running for re-election, and is near-guaranteed to be re-elected. (If I had realized she was up for re-election this year, I would have run against her - if only to make the statement, since I'm sure I would have no chance of beating an incumbent. For some reason I thought she wasn't up this year.)

The State Representative is Mary Nolan, who isn't running for Representative as she is challenging Amanda Fritz for a Portland City Council position. (The Portland City Council already has enacted every possible anti-gun ordinance possible under the Oregon Constitution, so while I definitely won't vote for her, she can't cause any more anti-gun harm there. And Fritz is no gun crusader, so it really doesn't matter WHO wins as far as gun-rights go.) The Democratic candidate is Jennifer Williamson, who is pro-gun (although she doesn't advertise it - I spoke with her during the primary campaign; and will continue to press her to fight for gun rights if/when she gets elected.) The Republicans didn't put up much of a fight for this district last time, and appear to be putting up *NO* fight this time, with a no-name candidate who barely campaigned in the primary, and hasn't campaigned at all in the primary. (He has no website that I can find, and barely says anything in what few statements I can find other than "I'm a retired teacher, we need to fix education.")

And if you want a good pro-gun liberal, check out Shemia Fagan, running for OR House District 51. A couple months ago, she even got a stony silence (other than my applause) at the League of Conservation Voters dinner when she commented about the importance of maintaining healthy forests so "she would have a good place to take her about-to-be-born son hunting"... That takes guts, taking a pro-gun stance at a LCV event!