The forgotten ones

[VinnieBoomBah]

I'm sure someone will come along and claim they really mean success rate.

Maybe because that is literally what the study and the page you linked to say and any other interpretation of the study is either due to misreading it or intentionally misrepresenting it to push an agenda?

Dude. It literally says increased risk of death, NOT. Increased risk of a attempting or committing

 

[Koda]

Dude. It literally says increased risk of death, NOT. Increased risk of a attempting or committing

having access.

 

[DB is Here]

Maybe you two should just PM each other...

You can save yourselves the time of quoting each other.

 

[Koda]

Maybe you two should just PM each other...

You can save yourselves the time of quoting each other.

Its all good conversation but I'll probably let it go back on topic now.

 

[TTSX]

As to the last handful of posts...

 

[Koda]

As to the last handful of posts...

View attachment 1932114

yet here we all are.

 

[TTSX]

yet here we all are.

 

[DB is Here]

yet here we all are.

Everywhere I go, there I am.

 

[TTSX]

Everywhere I go, there I am.

Everywhere you've been, there you were

 

[oremike]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J31pD2qiIDw

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Its all good conversation but I'll probably let it go back on topic now.

Agreed

 

[Bobbygun]

Y'all ripping on Koda for questioning the size of the experiment. Heck, the article points out the same thing.

From the article: "But from a social scientific perspective, the Stockton trial — with its short duration and small number of participants — may not necessarily be very instructive. It's "really more about storytelling than it is about social science," according to Matt Zwolinski, director of the University of San Diego's Center for Ethics, Economics, and Public Policy."

For me, it's more how the information is gathered. I don't see anyone coming forth with "I used most of it for booze and hookers, and just wasted the rest."

From the article: "Here's another wrinkle in the Stockton basic income trial: Each participant was given $500 per month on a debit card, so that researchers would be able to see how they were using the money. However, 40 percent of it was withdrawn as cash, so researchers had to rely on participants to tell them where the money went."

I know. I know. @VinnieBoomBah is calling it a win because at least he got ME to read the article.

 

[Koda]

Y'all ripping on Koda for questioning the size of the experiment. Heck, the article points out the same thing.

From the article: "But from a social scientific perspective, the Stockton trial — with its short duration and small number of participants — may not necessarily be very instructive. It's "really more about storytelling than it is about social science," according to Matt Zwolinski, director of the University of San Diego's Center for Ethics, Economics, and Public Policy."

For me, it's more how the information is gathered. I don't see anyone coming forth with "I used most of it for booze and hookers, and just wasted the rest."

From the article: "Here's another wrinkle in the Stockton basic income trial: Each participant was given $500 per month on a debit card, so that researchers would be able to see how they were using the money. However, 40 percent of it was withdrawn as cash, so researchers had to rely on participants to tell them where the money went."

I know. I know. @VinnieBoomBah is calling it a win because at least he got ME to read the article.

Let me guess... you don't have a degree in statistics either...

 

[Lilhigbee]

I would encourage anyone interested in knowing who is on the streets to do a ride-along with a cop who deals with these people every day. You might find it enlightening, perhaps even eye-opening. The five retired policemen/firemen I know all tell the same story; 95-98% of the people on the street are there because of drugs, are on drugs, and stay there for the drugs. Drugs are all that matter to them. Give them money, they'll buy drugs. Give them clothing, they'll trade it for drugs. Give them food, they'll eat it if they can't trade it for drugs. It's a culture unto itself. You can't change them because they don't want to change. Anything you give them just makes it easier for them to live that lifestyle .

 

[Bobbygun]

Let me guess... you don't have a degree in statistics either...

No. But I do have a minor in Applied Mathematics. I took three 400 level statistics classes in college to get that. Three terms of Calculus was a prerequisite. I'm not kidding.

In my old age, do I remember a single thing about any of that stuff? Not. A. Chance.

But hey, when I catch my buddy cheating on the golf scorecard, I'm the first one to throw at him, "Don't try that! I'm a Math Minor!" (Which always results in numerous eyerolls.)

 

[P7M13]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J31pD2qiIDw

Used to listen to these guys. "Nick Danger, Third Eye..."

 

[Mono1]

Three terms of Calculus

OK, my Calculus Story:

I'm not smart. Just a BS in Finance. No Big Math Type Stuff.

But we all had to take "The Calculus".

My Class started with 30 students.

End of the Semester, there were 4 of us remaining left in the class.


And, I got a "C".

 

[front_sight]

I would encourage anyone interested in knowing who is on the streets to do a ride-along with a cop who deals with these people every day. You might find it enlightening, perhaps even eye-opening. The five retired policemen/firemen I know all tell the same story; 95-98% of the people on the street are there because of drugs, are on drugs, and stay there for the drugs. Drugs are all that matter to them. Give them money, they'll buy drugs. Give them clothing, they'll trade it for drugs. Give them food, they'll eat it if they can't trade it for drugs. It's a culture unto itself. You can't change them because they don't want to change. Anything you give them just makes it easier for them to live that lifestyle .

^^ This. Here is what I have come to understand about most people on the street.

We moved up here from Texas in 2017. My wife and I were in our 60's and moved ourselves without a moving company, with some help from family and friends on the Texas end. By the time we arrived we were exhausted and found our home needed far more work than we had realized. We had multiple pods coming in a few days and only 5 days to unload them. We were overwhelmed and didn't know anyone here, so we advertised for day help on Craigslist. We were immediately contacted by a guy who said he and his girlfriend, and another male traveling companion would be glad to help. We hired them and they worked very hard. They were happy to camp in our yard and we fed them. They were of course dirty and living out of a run-down jeep. They basically went from day job to day job, partying in between.

The couple left after a few days but the other guy actually stayed on. he had other contacts in the area and was keen to get away from the couple, who were basically working him. Long story short, he cycled into and out of our lives for a few months. He would show up really strung out, dirty, and hungry. We would feed and house and help him with the understanding he could not be there on drugs. He would sober up and by the end of the week he was off again and into the woods and on the street. During those cycles we dropped him off at a rehab center and he stayed there a few days. But never more than 3-4 before he was back on the street.

The guy was smart. He was well read. He was kind and well mannered, and he did not steal from us. But he had absolutely no control over the drugs. The drugs controlled him. When he was sober he knew he needed to quit and knew he needed to go home to where his parents lived. He carried a cell phone which his parents paid for so that he could communicate with them when he was in trouble. When he was at rock bottom he would call his parents and they would deposit a bit of money for him. He would then buy some food and maybe some necessities and take them back into the woods.

After about two trips to pick him up and rescue him for a few days and three trips to drop him off at yet another different rehab center, we finally had to cut him loose and go dark on his text messages. He told us a lot about life on the street and how most people on the street were a lot like him. Not total idiots with a low IQ. But rather people who cannot get out from under the addictions - even when they receive lots of support.

So when you give these people on the street corner money, they absolutely are buying drugs with whatever money they don't need to actually stay alive. The only time they have a shot at the possibility of breaking the cycle is when their luck turns bad and they lose everything and can't even make it to the street corner. NOT giving them money allows for the possibility that a family member will come pick them up from the hospital, and this time it will stick and they will successfully beat the addiction.

I admire you guys who, knowing all this is true, can still hand over money. I just can't do it.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Things to consider when giving a hand out :

Cardboard signs can and will say anything....
Props are cheap and easy to find / come by...

Once you give something away...be it money , food , clothing , etc...
It is beyond your control with what happens to it next

Possibilities versus probabilities ....
It is possible that whatever you give actually goes to where it was meant / requested / said it was going to / etc.....
However...is that probable...?
In any event...as I said above....once you give something away..it is then beyond your control.

All of the above does read cynical ...or maybe realistic depending on your point of view.
And I am not saying that you shouldn't give someone a handout.

I am saying that if you choose to do so....do so with your eyes open.

Speaking of "eyes open"....
Be very situational aware when giving a handout to a street person.
It is easy to get distracted and focused on what they are doing and saying...while you are getting what is requested...
All while you are being set up for being robbed or worse.
Andy

 

[Spitpatch]

Those who have been truly "down and out" at least once in their lives and hungry enough over a number of days to cause intense pain have a different perspective regarding panhandling (that is quickly noticeable) from those who haven't.

...and it's not necessarily favorable toward a panhandler.