The Fantasies We Craft Apparently Get Around

[Boats]

Dead wrong IMO.

For a noob:
Rifles are easier to learn to keep lead on target - pistols take time and patience to learn like an extension.

Shotguns - 5.56/.223 tumbles after drywall and penetrates less then a slug or '00' buck shot that would most likely be loaded into a new shotgun owners mag.

AR's are still dirt cheap from what I have seen - people may be panic buying but there is a surplus of AR parts out there.

$500 pistol vs $500 AR15 = rifle cartridges will always trump pistols.

Rifles are easier to keep 'muzzle safe' while you can easily sweep a friendly with a pistol.

99% of the time the rifle will hold more ammo - noobs don't change mags fast or well.

"NEED" is subjective to each person.

New shooters are almost universally initially trained with rifles because they have a much better chance of hitting what they are aiming at and to build their confidence level with firearms.

Your first pistol should NOT be your everyday carry - no new shooter would know what they wanted or where to start and will get something that isn't appropriate. Plus he hasn't even cleared it with his wife so I doubt he will be CC ready anytime soon.


Those were just my initial thoughts after reading the OP.

No offense meant.

Maybe you didn't read my OP, but this dude is trying to hide his eventual purchase from his wife.

Should he get an AR pistol?

As to the criticism of my choice for the shotgun as my primary long arm? Whatever. I boarded and cleared ships and boats with an Ithaca M37 or M870, and guess what? They have tactical classes for pump shotguns too. I'm a pistol first guy so I can use a phone, but if I'm needing to repel boarders, I'm gonna wreck em, even if I wind up finishing em with a buttstroke.

Recoil? I'm 6' 8" and 275# and I like a little feedback from my weapon.

 

[Boboclown]

Its not that difficult to hide an AR. Take it apart and hide it somewhere the wife hates going to.

If he needs a rifle that he wants to hide from the missus, then an AR works. To each their own. Personally, my needs only required a handgun and multiple rifles (not that I'll ever stop buying rifles of any round).

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Hiding a rifle from wife speaks to a myriad of other problems. I'd stay away from that whole situation because trouble's a-comin'. Anybody involved in it is gonna be the one they both blame.

 

[Joe13]

Maybe you didn't read my OP, but this dude is trying to hide his eventual purchase from his wife.

Should he get an AR pistol?

As to the criticism of my choice for the shotgun as my primary long arm? Whatever. I boarded and cleared ships and boats with an Ithaca M37 or M870, and guess what? They have tactical classes for pump shotguns too. I'm a pistol first guy so I can use a phone, but if I'm needing to repel boarders, I'm gonna wreck em, even if I wind up finishing em with a buttstroke.

Recoil? I'm 6' 8" and 275# and I like a little feedback from my weapon.

My wife hasn't stepped foot in my garage for ages so I guess I didn't see hiding as being an issue. She is going to find out sooner or later - kinda like Tiger Woods wife did.


I hope this comes across as it is meant too but I did not criticize your choice of home protection nor devalue shotguns in general; I in fact keep 2 loaded on top of my pistols and rifle, because I agree with you on their value.

What I said was that it was a poor choice for a new to guns guy, living in an urban area that will most likely grab a box of '00' Buck shot which is a lot worse then .223 out of a short AR.


My post was maybe brash because I disagree strongly with the advice you gave to your friend and wouldn't have said anything, except you specifically asked for input.


And very few people are 6'8". I was tall growing up at 6'2" and feel slightly taller then average at 6'1" now. And no idea how recoil got into this but maybe that was directed at someone else.

Cheers

 

[Boboclown]

While you giant folk are talkin' bout recoil I'm sitting here thinking that recoil is nothin' without a metal buttplate to go with it.

 

[PaulB47]

Am I wrong?

I'm trying to sympathize with your position, but I just don't see it.

Newbies may be inarticulate about guns, not know the terminology, etc. None of that matters.

What matters is effectiveness. An AR handles more situations than anything other than a 9mm pistol, and they complement each other in this respect. He really does need an AR if he is determined to defend his family - and SHTF, which looks pretty likely these days. Sure, he does not need it if there is no SHTF and he never experiences a home invasion, but who wants to gamble your family's existence on that never happening?

An added factor that I've seen very few mention, is that a capable weapon gives peace of mind, something not to be sneered at.

As to hiding a gun from a wife (until she comes around because somebody is banging on the front door), that is trivial. How many women spend time in crawl spaces or attics?

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

Maybe you didn't read my OP, but this dude is trying to hide his eventual purchase from his wife.

Should he get an AR pistol?

As to the criticism of my choice for the shotgun as my primary long arm? Whatever. I boarded and cleared ships and boats with an Ithaca M37 or M870, and guess what? They have tactical classes for pump shotguns too. I'm a pistol first guy so I can use a phone, but if I'm needing to repel boarders, I'm gonna wreck em, even if I wind up finishing em with a buttstroke.

Recoil? I'm 6' 8" and 275# and I like a little feedback from my weapon.

"Hide" a rifle from his wife...?
W the F ?
If he has to hide a rifle from his wife , he has much bigger issues than deciding to buy an AR15 or not.
Best to avoid contact

 

[Joe13]

Another side of the coin:

If he hides it will it be a viable defensive weapon?

I would think a loaded gun in hiding is more dangerous to the people that do not know its there; Closet scenario - loaded shotgun in back corner. Wife reaches to grab a hanger that fell and when she tugs on it it goes off?



If he does buy a gun but then she finds out and he has to sell it for a big loss then keep me in mind

 

[nwslopoke]

My wife was very much against guns. A family member committed suicide. Over time I have aquired several starting with a HD shotgun and worked my way to pretty much everything but I kept it separate from her and she sees me using them and the community that comes with them.

She has shot them and on one side likes to know they are available, she still isn't a huge fan

 

[Boboclown]

"Hide" a rifle from his wife...?
W the F ?
If he has to hide a rifle from his wife , he has much bigger issues than deciding to buy an AR15 or not.
Best to avoid contact

Considering his wife is really antigun, he obviously can't just buy it and say "honey, I brought a gun home."

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

Considering his wife is really antigun, he obviously can't just buy it and say "honey, I brought a gun home."

Uh... Yeah he can, but he feels the need to hide it?
Who is this woman - dianne feinstein?
Seriously though, if this guy needs to hide something from his wife, they have major issues with trust and honesty. A gun of any flavor is not going to help that situation.
The guy needs to take his wife out to a range for a date night and they BOTH need to get some reputable instruction way before he decides to buy a scary black killing machine...
Im not trying to start an argument, but relationships that hide stuff are not healthy, or long term.

 

[440volt]

He wants an assault rifle? There are a few hoops to jump through, but a StG 44 would fill the bill. Tell him to make sure he is in a Class 3 state and to bring his checkbook. Maybe his wife's checkbook as well....

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

He wants an assault rifle? There are a few hoops to jump through, but a StG 44 would fill the bill. Tell him to make sure he is in a Class 3 state and to bring his checkbook. Maybe his wife's checkbook as well....

Sounds like this dudes wife has more than his checkbook in her purse...

 

[Boboclown]

Uh... Yeah he can, but he feels the need to hide it?

Different situation and such. Without all the details I can't judge. Agree to disagree, either way there's just not enough info to make any judgment.


In addition to gun advice, the guy needs a divorce lawyer or something if he's really interested in guns and she won't have it.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

This whole thread makes me REALLY appreciate my wife. A battle scarred ex-cop (yeah she got stabbed, pissed her off, he died) tends to have a very positive view of defensive firearms.

But I do recall that my former wife thought guns were bad before she met me. It didn't take too long to teach her that bad people with guns could be bad, but good people with guns constitute a force for good. She never became a gun nut, but did end up with a few of her own.

I strongly recommend honesty between spouses. As to the AR, it's fun. Recoil is so light that children can shoot it (especially with the multi-position collapsible stock). The little rifle/carbine is loud enough that it seems to kids like a "real rifle." They love it. Although some Real Men decry the "poodle shooter" and observe that real rifles are .30 caliber, anyone can learn to shoot the AR. And if you load that varmint cartridge with varmint bullets, you will have less concern about overpenetration than with many pistols or slugs and buckshot. So it is a great home defender. I won't argue whether it's the best, but it's a dandy.

I'm all for everyone having at least one AR-15. It may not be the biggest baddest battle rifle on Earth, but if everyone has one we'll achieve the ideal of a free republic, a battle rifle in every home.

And even though our Ruling Class hates and fears armed peasants, if we reach the point where a politician knows the majority of his voting constituents owns fighting weapons, that politician WILL take notice amd will NOT vote to anger that majority.

Help that fellow get his AR and learn to use it, and you help us all.

 

[coop44]

Just buy a gun and go shoot. This bs about starter 22's is just that. I'm sure the rainbow gun crowd has to have the "just right" gun with matching handbag and pumps, good for them. I don't bat for that team.

 

[I594 Sucks]

Gee...is my Ruger Challenger an "assault" weapon? It has a pistol grip. It's a semiautomatic. It takes 25 round (and larger), removable, magazines. It has a "military style" red dot site. It has a bipod. And now, it has a suppressed barrel. Oh, and it's about the same caliber as an AR-15.

Ooo...scary. Oh, oh...it's not black. Dang!

 

[206thsense]

I've had a lot of friends ask about guns and I've always used as a way to take them shooting in a safe, controlled environment. Shooting 22LR is fun! If they're curious about more, of course bring a rifle or some pistols to try.

Knowledge defeats fear. Experience builds understanding.

 

[Skier]

Maybe have him look at a pistol caliber carbine, like the Sub-2000. I know someone who bought one during the last panic timeframe (when most ARs were over $1500, but he got it ~$500). It looks kind of assault rifle'ish , it's very accurate, cheap to shoot for the 9mm version, takes Glock mags, including the 30 round mags (though there are other non-Glock options), at 25 yards it has roughly the same energy as a 357mag at point-blank (due to the additional acceleration time of the 9mm cartridge in a 16" barrel), and folds down to 7"x16" for convenient storage, which might possibly extend the time before he has to have a conversation with the wife. As a bonus, if he decided to get a handgun from a manufacturer that the Sub-2000 supports, he could interchange magazines between the handgun and the Sub2k. What's not to like?

 

[DunRanull]

First off, as others have pointed out, if he has to hide from his spouse he has issues that may require either manning up or a divorce. That said I found it useful not to let the first wife know exactly what I had or where they were. Some things yes but not the pricier stuff... but then she didnt seem to pay that much attention anyway. But her attorney cared. Mind you Im not suggesting LYING. I do suggest avoiding full disclosure sometimes.
To the OP.. a 5.56 semi-auto isnt an "assault rifle" and that needs to be clearly and carefully explained to your buddy (words are important and he who controls the language controls the war). Then some hands-on time if you trust this guy with your guns.. or time at a paid range where they rent guns.
My own instinct would be to suggest some .22LR time, both revolver/pistol and rifle. OR if the guy really wants to go the whole hog and understands what that means... and HAS the "means", then what the hay.. a Colt or similar 5.56. (NOT a cheapie that will only disappoint). Stack or two of mags... means to carry them.. case of ammo or two... see where this is going? Maybe he wants a cheapie that will spend it's life hidden in the garage. Shoot, an SKS with some strippered ammo might work for his needs.
Frankly this could be a sticky business.. can see a lot of ways this could go poorly. Again, to a range with rentals, and a gun safety course. CYA Dun