the fan has been struck. S&P downgrade

[Sun195]

The stock exchange will be shut down by the SEC for the day before that will happen.

Good point - I forgot about that feature. Need to go re-shake my Magic Eight Ball....

 

[Riot]

Not saying that the US fiscal situation is not bad. But should we factor - in that Moody's and the other rating services have acted like $5 crack ho s - conferring AAA ratings to sub-prime mortgage-backed securities for a decade leading up to the 2008 crash? They were one of the critical institutions causing the economic mess to explode.
Do they have any credibility? Are they conferring a POLITiCAL downgrade designed for 2012?
The real debt problem is the private debt burden. The US population needs a 'debt jubilee' - the banks and investment houses need a well-deserved haircut.Without that, we will be in a depression from here on out. The government problem is the misallocation of resources that make spending on necessary things impossible.

Of course they did....everyone wanted their money back they threw in the market. If you had hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in the market invested, would you decline the rating? Or would you try everything in your power to get back what you invested? The truth of the matter is, this was due years ago but nobody wanted to admit it. The debt ceiling being raised was proof that we no longer have a handle on our budget...topple that with the wars, unemployment, how many people are on government support and that we're still printing dollars should tell you that our credit rating should have tanked a while ago.

Am I the only the one thinks the only reason why we are still overseas is because if we open the stop loss flood gates then unemployment will double? Not to mention the amount of soldiers claiming dissability...

Something is going to give soon, if you can't see the storm coming just because the weatherman is telling you it's sunny out then sorry for you. But the rest of us smell rain.

 

[Father of four]

"...The truth of the matter is, this was due years ago but nobody wanted to admit it. The debt ceiling being raised was proof that we no longer have a handle on our budget...topple that with the wars, unemployment, how many people are on government support and that we're still printing dollars should tell you that our credit rating should have tanked a while ago..."

Great post Riot!

 

[MikeE]

Of course they did....everyone wanted their money back they threw in the market. If you had hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in the market invested, would you decline the rating? Or would you try everything in your power to get back what you invested? The truth of the matter is, this was due years ago but nobody wanted to admit it. The debt ceiling being raised was proof that we no longer have a handle on our budget...topple that with the wars, unemployment, how many people are on government support and that we're still printing dollars should tell you that our credit rating should have tanked a while ago.

Am I the only the one thinks the only reason why we are still overseas is because if we open the stop loss flood gates then unemployment will double? Not to mention the amount of soldiers claiming dissability...

Something is going to give soon, if you can't see the storm coming just because the weatherman is telling you it's sunny out then sorry for you. But the rest of us smell rain.

If you wanted precipitate a political crisis and install a 100% austerity government that would go all the way at gutting any program that benefits working people while keeping all corporate subsidies intact (aka the Ryan Budget)...?

 

[Just Jim]

If you wanted precipitate a political crisis and install a 100% austerity government that would go all the way at gutting any program that benefits working people while keeping all corporate subsidies intact (aka the Ryan Budget)...?

What has happened is the socialist have run out of everyone elses money to spend.

jj

What we are entitled to is what we have worked for. There are those who are productive and those who live off the productive. When government regulates production then they stop production that provides money for the productive and the non productive. The job killing socialist create the problems by spending money they don't have. A good start would be for them to stop spending more every year and balance a budget. It won't happen.

 

[Father of four]

 

[MikeE]

What has happened is the socialist have run out of everyone elses money to spend.

jj

But first, the capitalists destroyed the economy through an insane real estate bubble, funded by the Fed, and based on outright fraud via the credit rating agencies. The private debt saddling the American public dwarfs the public debt (much of which was run up bailing out capitalist criminals).
When you or I make bad business decisions in our small enterprises, we pay the price. So should the banksters. There is a concept in international law called 'odious debt' - debt run up through fraud and violence. It should be repudiated.

 

[dmancornell]

But first, the capitalists destroyed the economy through an insane real estate bubble, funded by the Fed, and based on outright fraud via the credit rating agencies.

Implying the federal reserve is run by capitalists.

 

[Just Jim]

But first, the capitalists destroyed the economy through an insane real estate bubble, funded by the Fed, and based on outright fraud via the credit rating agencies. The private debt saddling the American public dwarfs the public debt (much of which was run up bailing out capitalist criminals).
When you or I make bad business decisions in our small enterprises, we pay the price. So should the banksters. There is a concept in international law called 'odious debt' - debt run up through fraud and violence. It should be repudiated.

Notice nobody has gone to jail? Why do you think that is? Just like in the socialist progressive days of Hitler all the evil was done under the law. The socialist progressives created the laws which allowed the criminals to fleece us. Yet they won't go after them because they are a part of it. Government is the problem, they fail to govern in a moral manner and now there is no way to hold them accountable because they have done this to us under the laws they wrote.

Back when slick willie did his thing people who cared said "character matters", now you can see why it does.

jj

 

[EZLivin]

But first, the capitalists destroyed the economy through an insane real estate bubble, funded by the Fed, and based on outright fraud via the credit rating agencies.

That sounds more like "fascism" than "capitalism" to me. To me "capitalism" is Main Street USA, not Wall Street White House USA. But of course just about everyone loved the system while it was working, right? A vacation home or two, an oversized military-style SUVs parked at every suburban mansion. Not many complaints from people back then while the "managed" economy was working. I wish we would get back to capitalism; it has been a few decades since we actually had it.

 

[MikeE]

Notice nobody has gone to jail? Why do you think that is? Just like in the socialist progressive days of Hitler all the evil was done under the law. The socialist progressives created the laws which allowed the criminals to fleece us. Yet they won't go after them because they are a part of it. Government is the problem, they fail to govern in a moral manner and now there is no way to hold them accountable because they have done this to us under the laws they wrote.

Back when slick willie did his thing people who cared said "character matters", now you can see why it does.

jj

Of course the Fed is a capitalist institution. Capitalism is different from free enterprise. Capitalism means political rule by Capital, concentrated private wealth wielding power for a tiny class of capitalist oligarchs. There are other kinds of oligarchy - the soviets had rule by a tiny class of so-called socialist bureaucrats for example. The problem we have right here, right now, is with capitalist oligarchy.

 

[dmancornell]

Of course the Fed is a capitalist institution. Capitalism is different from free enterprise. Capitalism means political rule by Capital, concentrated private wealth wielding power for a tiny class of capitalist oligarchs. There are other kinds of oligarchy - the soviets had rule by a tiny class of so-called socialist bureaucrats for example. The problem we have right here, right now, is with capitalist oligarchy.

Capitalism is free enterprise. What you describe is state-controlled corporatism.

The federal reserve is completely controlled by politicians, there is nothing private about it. Therefore it cannot be a capitalist institution. The same goes for the Wall Street banksters, the ones who refused to be borged by the feds were left to die, the only firms left are indistinguishable from the Dept of the Treasury.

Your so-called "capitalist oligarchs" are government corporatists and an insult to the capitalist creed.

 

[Just Jim]

Of course the Fed is a capitalist institution. Capitalism is different from free enterprise. Capitalism means political rule by Capital, concentrated private wealth wielding power for a tiny class of capitalist oligarchs. There are other kinds of oligarchy - the soviets had rule by a tiny class of so-called socialist bureaucrats for example. The problem we have right here, right now, is with capitalist oligarchy.

The problem we have is the socialist progressives have destroyed our capitalist system so bad they the socialist have run out of other peoples money to spend, even after borrowing trillions..The capitalist you speak of have no power to print money, only your socialist progressive government does. Government makes the laws we live under and under this new crew they have put icing on the cake with trillions in spending.(who got all that money?) Been watching it all happen for years and now it is about to come home to roost.

 

[MikeE]

Capitalism is free enterprise. What you describe is state-controlled corporatism.

The federal reserve is completely controlled by politicians, there is nothing private about it. Therefore it cannot be a capitalist institution. The same goes for the Wall Street banksters, the ones who refused to be borged by the feds were left to die, the only firms left are indistinguishable from the Dept of the Treasury.

Your so-called "capitalist oligarchs" are government corporatists and an insult to the capitalist creed.

I basically agree with you.

 

[powersbj]

But first, the capitalists destroyed the economy through an insane real estate bubble, funded by the Fed, and based on outright fraud via the credit rating agencies. The private debt saddling the American public dwarfs the public debt (much of which was run up bailing out capitalist criminals).
When you or I make bad business decisions in our small enterprises, we pay the price. So should the banksters. There is a concept in international law called 'odious debt' - debt run up through fraud and violence. It should be repudiated.

Acctually some Dems in congress required that banks make more loans to lower income people, now a whole bunch of people who really cant afford loans can. The market gets flooded with cash, demand go through the roof prices shoot up and then it all comes crashing down... The only way banks could really pull it off was to ignore the fraud on the loan papers and make the payments small through ARM's intrest only etc.... And everyone fell for it because for some reason our educational system is to busy to teach basic finances.

Fall for the class warfare game if you want but this entire thing was caused by the lefts social engineering gone wrong... again.

 

[MikeE]

Acctually some Dems in congress required that banks make more loans to lower income people, now a whole bunch of people who really cant afford loans can. The market gets flooded with cash, demand go through the roof prices shoot up and then it all comes crashing down... The only way banks could really pull it off was to ignore the fraud on the loan papers and make the payments small through ARM's intrest only etc.... And everyone fell for it because for some reason our educational system is to busy to teach basic finances.

Fall for the class warfare game if you want but this entire thing was caused by the lefts social engineering gone wrong... again.

Oh those poor bankers, taken in by the po' folks again!

 

[powersbj]

Oh those poor bankers, taken in by the po' folks again!

Dont fall for the class war, the "evil banksters" and the socialists in congress are the same people. Follow the money.

 

[Tangent123123]

Growing up in a country that was socialist which at this point in time is really doing very well with a budget surplus over the last decade. I really think blaming socialism for all our woes is a cop out.

Start with blaming a two party system that alternates between back room deals and cockblocking each other to the point of nothing getting done. Then move to special interest and pet projects taking huge pieces of the pie. Maybe then throw in the absolute in your face thievery and mis-management with little to no accoutability.

None of that has to do with socialism, it has to do with lining ones own pockets and the public just sitting back and letting it happen. Because there isn't a lot we can do about it. Elections are no longer about voting in the best man. It's about voting our party line or at best, the guy what will f*ck us over the least.

So I say don't fail for the "it's the socialists" excuse. It's the corruption and apathy that is to blame and what's left I blame on the bleeding hearts. I don't equate the bleeding heart BS with socialism, they are two different things entirely.

I'm not a very political person, but the same old excuse was getting old.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Government learned along time ago that we are basically just animals and can easily be manipulated via our fears, greed, need for acceptance, and insecurities. Watch the Century of Self DVDs/videos to see how they used people like the Freuds and Edward Bernais (the founder of Public Relations) to accomplish this task. If you bought into all the fear mongering and lies over the last ten years, congrats, you responded just as the psychologists who aid the government in their manipulations said you would.

The banksters who control our government have already destroyed America but their media has the people convinced it is not that bad. The purpose of this delay is to give them time to drain away everything real away and leave us a shell, with nothing but worthless, backed by nothing, dollar bills and a gutted infrastructure. Soon we will be on level ground with the rest of the globe. Since most of the rest of the globe lives on $2/day it will be a rude awakening. On our knees, begging for crumbs, the US populace will agree to any terms the banksters lay out.

That said, if you can't laugh and enjoy life what is the point - this is still the most hilarious video on the economy I have ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

 

[jer fly]

Noisycow has it right on. Freedomain Radio The history of our enslavement.