The emergency “friends and family” gun.

[RedRover]

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I liked them both. Which period movies would you recommend for muzzle loader action?

My dislike of Last of the Mohicans is that it only follows a little of the book...and that infamous bit about how a silk patch will give Hawkeye another 40 yards....As well as Hawkeye having a rifle styled that way...the rifle in the movie looked great for one about 1800 - 1820...not the 1750's and 1760's....

The Revenant...strayed so far from any history of Hugh Glass...to really be a story about him...
It should have different names for the characters.
Also there were things like pan primers...and multi shots without re-loading...
Wrong geography and wrong season of the year...
Folks dying who didn't ...
The blatant message of white trappers are bad...all Indians are good...
And yeah I know that they are both movies , not documentaries...

In any event...
The Alamo from 2004 is pretty good with muzzle loading firearms and how they were used.
Jeremiah Johnson with all of its faults is a good movie...other things in that one , save it.

Mostly I just ignore all the WTH moments with muzzle loaders on TV or in movies.
I really can't suggest a movie with good accurate muzzle loading.
Andy

 

[American123]

My dislike of Last of the Mohicans is that it only follows a little of the book...and that infamous bit about how a silk patch will give Hawkeye another 40 yards....As well as Hawkeye having a rifle styled that way...the rifle in the movie looked great for one about 1800 - 1820...not the 1750's and 1760's....

The Revenant...strayed so far from any history of Hugh Glass...to really be a story about him...
It should have different names for the characters.
Also there were things like pan primers...and multi shots without re-loading...
Wrong geography and wrong season of the year...
Folks dying who didn't ...
The blatant message of white trappers are bad...all Indians are good...
And yeah I know that they are both movies , not documentaries...

In any event...
The Alamo from 2004 is pretty good with muzzle loading firearms and how they were used.
Jeremiah Johnson with all of its faults is a good movie...other things in that one , save it.

Mostly I just ignore all the WTH moments with muzzle loaders on TV or in movies.
I really can't suggest a movie with good accurate muzzle loading.
Andy

People who are knowledgeable about firearms generally can't watch movies with firearms through a critical lens because otherwise we'd spend the whole movie shouting, "it doesn't work like that!" at the movie.

 

[Howard1955]

If we have to start putting guns into our untrained & inexperienced family's hands, then the guns need to have:

(1) Ease of use

(2) Low recoil

and

(3) High capacity

I imagine the experience would be similar to teaching a new shooter, but would be abbreviated and stressful - to say the least. In between the tears and the freaking-out, they'd have to be shown where the safety is, and how it's used.

My choice for something like that would probably be a 9mm pistol with a brace. The CZ Scorpion Evo3 S2 comes to mind.

A sturdy light/laser on the front bottom rail would allow them to point-and-shoot. For this, I think the Crimson Trace light/laser from their LINQ system would be good. It has a big rubber on/off pad on it that's easy to use.

A Holosun "shake-awake" optic on top would help them actually hit what they were aiming at, and would simply come on when they picked up the weapon.

Magazines with 30 or so rounds in them would give them a fighting chance to actually hit something. And the low recoil of the 9mm would help.

If cost isn't a concern, then a good suppressor would be great. I would guess that the unskilled family member would be in a house or apartment complex - not going out on patrols. So a suppressor would be good. Or at least, some ear plugs.

Then, we'd have to hope that they didn't accidentally shoot us - or shoot themselves in the foot.

Let's hope and pray we never have to start arming the untrained/inexperienced folks around us.

 

[Flopsweat]

If we have to start putting guns into our untrained & inexperienced family's hands, then the guns need to have:

(1) Ease of use

(2) Low recoil

and

(3) High capacity

I imagine the experience would be similar to teaching a new shooter, but would be abbreviated and stressful - to say the least. In between the tears and the freaking-out, they'd have to be shown where the safety is, and how it's used.

My choice for something like that would probably be a 9mm pistol with a brace. The CZ Scorpion Evo3 S2 comes to mind.

A sturdy light/laser on the front bottom rail would allow them to point-and-shoot. For this, I think the Crimson Trace light/laser from their LINQ system would be good. It has a big rubber on/off pad on it that's easy to use.

A Holosun "shake-awake" optic on top would help them actually hit what they were aiming at, and would simply come on when they picked up the weapon.

Magazines with 30 or so rounds in them would give them a fighting chance to actually hit something. And the low recoil of the 9mm would help.

If cost isn't a concern, then a good suppressor would be great. I would guess that the unskilled family member would be in a house or apartment complex - not going out on patrols. So a suppressor would be good. Or at least, some ear plugs.

Then, we'd have to hope that they didn't accidentally shoot us - or shoot themselves in the foot.

Let's hope and pray we never have to start arming the untrained/inexperienced folks around us.

Great points. I have one nit to pick though. The button for the laser is going to be a bit much for a newby in a stressful situation. I wouldn't even personally want it as a primary on anything bigger than a full size pistol, especially if I've got a red-dot/holo on it.

 

[Howard1955]

Great points. I have one nit to pick though. The button for the laser is going to be a bit much for a newby in a stressful situation. I wouldn't even personally want it as a primary on anything bigger than a full size pistol, especially if I've got a red-dot/holo on it.

You could be right about that. They might forget they have a light on the weapon.

But, if they're inside a dark building, it might occur to them to turn on the light. I'm thinking it might help, and probably wouldn't hurt.

 

[Flopsweat]

You could be right about that. They might forget they have a light on the weapon.

But, if they're inside a dark building, it might occur to them to turn on the light. I'm thinking it might help, and probably wouldn't hurt.

Until they point their weapon at you and try to remember how to turn the light on...

 

[American123]

Until they point their weapon at you and try to remember how to turn the light on...

Or in the case of a "well trained" woman cop, fire their gun when intending to fire a taser.

 

[Flopsweat]

Or in the case of a "well trained" woman cop, fire their gun when intending to fire a taser.

LOL, I think it was far less about her plumbing and more about incompetence and/or training.

 

[American123]

LOL, I think it was far less about her plumbing and more about incompetence and/or training.

There are on average biological differences in response to high stress situations, but yeah, training makes a big difference for either gender.

 

[USMC-03]

Be prepared and willing to arm thy neighbor.

A few thoughts...

First, in a long term SHTF situation where security is an issue, the solitude strategy won't work. A typical family unit cannot hope to successfully defend a suburban or semi-rural home 24/7 in the long term on their own.

Defense must be considered at the neighborhood and/or community level. The time to deal with unwelcome visitors is before 3 or 4 SUVs full are unloading in your cul-de-sac at 3:30am. Distance is our friend.

Distance requires manpower, coordination and collaboration. Relationships and leadership are going to be paramount.

Caution is entirely warranted - agreed. That said, giving a firearm, ammunition, two pounds of rice and a few cans of chicken to a family in need can go a long way to building loyalty and adding an asset to the community.

I have several friends/acquaintances, families with younger children, very good people, that just don't have the attitude for preparing or self defense yet. The rose colored glasses syndrome is shockingly wide spread and a lot of people are likely in for some very rude awakenings.

Simplicity is key. Break open shotguns and snub nose revolvers can be hugely valuable and effective. As Bracken recently noted, the first two rounds of buckshot from a double barrel are every bit as good as coming from a Bennelli M4, plus more versatile if you need to switch between shot sizes quickly.

Food for thought. Equip your family first, but then be ready to grow your tribe. Those of us with the skill and experience will become teachers and leaders, much the same as the Operation Jedburgh teams of World War II.

 

[quneur]

If we have to start putting guns into our untrained & inexperienced family's hands, then the guns need to have:

(1) Ease of use

(2) Low recoil

and

(3) High capacity

I imagine the experience would be similar to teaching a new shooter, but would be abbreviated and stressful - to say the least. In between the tears and the freaking-out, they'd have to be shown where the safety is, and how it's used.

I would rather hand out a more simplistic, low round type firearm. My reason are:

1. Cheaper. In this case, more firearms, more people, more coverage in differing directions.

2. Safety like the Rem 870 on the trigger guard is easier to use and instruct. Teach them to put their trigger finger on the safety. To fire, they would have to positively push in the safety before moving to the trigger in one motion. No Winchesters where safety is in front and is harder to use because the safety must be manipulated with an extended finger.

3. A single shot is easier to operate and less mechanical inclination to fail than gas guns. If they are using a semi handgun, they're likely to limp wrist it and likely stove pipe rendering additional rounds useless.

 

[RVTECH]

I really can't suggest a movie with good accurate muzzle loading.

Neither can I having watched countless numbers of them however 'The Patriot' came a 'little' closer than some in the fact that it at least showed a 'vague ' follow through of some muzzleloading actions such as priming the pan, ramrods being used and withdrawn - but still far from complete, full loading procedure accuracy.

 

[Flopsweat]

I would rather hand out a more simplistic, low round type firearm. My reason are:

1. Cheaper. In this case, more firearms, more people, more coverage in differing directions.

2. Safety like the Rem 870 on the trigger guard is easier to use and instruct. Teach them to put their trigger finger on the safety. To fire, they would have to positively push in the safety before moving to the trigger in one motion. No Winchesters where safety is in front and is harder to use because the safety must be manipulated with an extended finger.

3. A single shot is easier to operate and less mechanical inclination to fail than gas guns. If they are using a semi handgun, they're likely to limp wrist it and likely stove pipe rendering additional rounds useless.

And they waste less ammo.

 

[billdeserthills]

This is the gun I have loaned in the past & the guy was damn glad to get it too

Cobray FMJ Model D Single shot pistol .45 LC /.410 2 1/2\"

Cobray FMJ Model D Single shot pistol .45 LC /.410 2 1/2\" for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Member 34319]

BLEM PSA 16" Mid-Length 5.56 NATO 1/7 Nitride MOE Upper With BCG, CH, & MBUS Rear - Flat Dark Earth

Barrel Length: 16"Gas System: Mid-lengthBarrel Profile: A2Barrel Steel: Chrome-Moly VanadiumBarrel Finish: NitrideChrome Lining: NoneMuzzle Thread: 1/2-28Chamber: 5.56 NATOTwist Rate: 1:7Barrel Extension: M4Diameter at Gas Block: .750Gas Block Type: F-marked Front Sight BaseMuzzle Device: A2...

palmettostatearmory.com

https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html

 

[GWS]

My dislike of Last of the Mohicans is that it only follows a little of the book...and that infamous bit about how a silk patch will give Hawkeye another 40 yards....As well as Hawkeye having a rifle styled that way...the rifle in the movie looked great for one about 1800 - 1820...not the 1750's and 1760's....

The Revenant...strayed so far from any history of Hugh Glass...to really be a story about him...
It should have different names for the characters.
Also there were things like pan primers...and multi shots without re-loading...
Wrong geography and wrong season of the year...
Folks dying who didn't ...
The blatant message of white trappers are bad...all Indians are good...
And yeah I know that they are both movies , not documentaries...

In any event...
The Alamo from 2004 is pretty good with muzzle loading firearms and how they were used.
Jeremiah Johnson with all of its faults is a good movie...other things in that one , save it.

Mostly I just ignore all the WTH moments with muzzle loaders on TV or in movies.
I really can't suggest a movie with good accurate muzzle loading.
Andy

I submit to you---
The Kentuckian Starring Burt Lancaster. Near the end of the movie a bad guy is 50+ yards away when he ambushes Burt and a friend. He shoots Burt's pal. As the bad guy starts to reload, Burt charges him, running across a stream and slams into him as he swings the rifle up,
Great scene

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I submit to you---
The Kentuckian Starring Burt Lancaster. Near the end of the movie a bad guy is 50+ yards away when he ambushes Burt and a friend. He shoots Burt's pal. As the bad guy starts to reload, Burt charges him, running across a stream and slams into him as he swings the rifle up,
Great scene

I've seen that movie...its pretty good.
Still haven't seen a movie that is something better than pretty good , in regards to muzzle loaders.

Others of course will have differing opinions...
Andy

 

[titsonritz]

I submit to you---
The Kentuckian Starring Burt Lancaster. Near the end of the movie a bad guy is 50+ yards away when he ambushes Burt and a friend. He shoots Burt's pal. As the bad guy starts to reload, Burt charges him, running across a stream and slams into him as he swings the rifle up,
Great scene

I dig Burt Lancaster, I'd watch it for that reason alone.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Burt Lancaster , Lee Marvin , Woody Strode and Robert Ryan...in "The Professionals"....is a great movie.
Andy