The death of Front Sight

[Ironbar]

Well, I think Piazza is officially off the deep end.

I had no idea what the hell was going on at Front Sight in Nevada because I blocked their endless stream of emails a long time ago. However, a coworker of mine who's a member sent me a link to an email that convinces me that Front Sight is about to go down in flames. Looks like old Piazza got hisself into some shady business dealings which of COURSE aren't his fault at all. So, to cover his losses he puts out an appeal to all members asking for a one-time donation. Again, didn't get this alert because I blocked all their emails. Well, the fundraiser didn't raise enough money, (surprise), so he blames the membership in part for his woes.

So now, to solve their money woes, they're "restructuring." Starting February 28th, 2022, in order to remain a member of Front Sight, you must pay a $50.00 per month membership fee! Additionally, many classes they used to teach have been discontinued. Additionally, you must now buy all your ammo for classes from Front Sight. If you dare to pore over all of Piazza's feckless diatribe, you can read all about it here: Front Sight Restructuring Plan

Since I have no intention of paying $600.00 per year to remain a member at a place that I don't even visit every year, to Dr. Piazza and Front Sight I give a hearty, F U !!

It's a damn shame because I really enjoyed the trips down there.

Read More

 

[titsonritz]

So all you people that bought "life time" memberships bent over. I knew the day would come. I always thought the guy was a clown to begin with.

 

[Ironbar]

So all you people that bought "life time" memberships bent over. I knew the day would come. I always thought the guy was a clown to begin with.

I was gifted my first membership for free. I upgraded to a higher level several years ago for about $300.00. I got my money's worth. I shed no tears over this news.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I read a lot of it.. though he tells the readers to read it fully, carefully and twice over.

100%, this guy effed up and believed some fly by night guy promising the sun and moon without doing any homework or reading the fine print, he then blames the 100,000 households or 250,000 members for not bailing him out.. and the way it reads after that basically makes the "restructure" seem like a means to punish people.
His business plan now to nickel and dime members and any NEW oncoming members scammy as hell.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Just got a confirmation from one of their instructors...they are on the way to closing down.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but thought I would read it because I do love's me a good train wreck!
But much to my disappointment all I found was a self entitled 'special child' getting what he deserved

 

[RVTECH]

I know nothing about Front Sight, or any of of these 'training institutes' (or whatever they call themselves) but I did skim the 'restructuring plan' and this part had me throwing up a bit in my throat:
A simple donation to the fight, OR joining the Front Sight Warrior group and receiving spectacular value and guns and gear bonuses for several levels of participation, OR upgrading to our highest-level membership, the Order of the Knights of Front Sight.

Front SIght 'Warrior Group' , and the 'Order of the Knights of Front Sight' ?

Who is he talking to? Adults or a bunch of kids ?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I know nothing about Front Sight, or any of of these 'training institutes' (or whatever they call themselves) but I did skim the 'restructuring plan' and this part had me throwing up a bit in my throat:
A simple donation to the fight, OR joining the Front Sight Warrior group and receiving spectacular value and guns and gear bonuses for several levels of participation, OR upgrading to our highest-level membership, the Order of the Knights of Front Sight.

Front SIght 'Warrior Group' , and the 'Order of the Knights of Front Sight' ?

Who is he talking to? Adults or a bunch of kids ?

I believe the technical term is "marks"

 

[Camelfilter]

Is that the place that wanted to build some giant restaurant/shopping plaza, or some such. And fancy schmancy chalets & such?

if so: Don't need any above for training.

Bunkhouse? Maybe. If hotels, campgrounds etc aren't nearby. Bunkhouse. Not hotel nor motel. Plus RV pads. Laundry, self service. Mess hall, self service. Etc.

Would have/could have been gold.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Holy lord, that was the longest plea for bookoo I've ever read. I'm glad I no longer get their barrage of emails too. Felt like I was reading one of those user agreements word for word lol

 

[Member 34319]

Accepting a friends free membership there was one of the worst things I've done gun related. He lives in Vegas, actually used their facility, talked highly of it. I figured what could hurt, a free membership, I'd ever in Vegas again I'd go.

Well, still haven't gone, and the amount of stuff they send me in the mail rivals the NRA.

Guy must of made millions off of idiots. Now he is desperate.

Maybe a better owner will take over the facilities and make it into something decent.

 

[Ironbar]

Just got a confirmation from one of their instructors...they are on the way to closing.

Wish I could afford Cerberus training.

 

[Ironbar]

Accepting a friends free membership there was one of the worst things I've done gun related. He lives in Vegas, actually used their facility, talked highly of it. I figured what could hurt, a free membership, I'd ever in Vegas again I'd go.

Well, still haven't gone, and the amount of stuff they send me in the mail rivals the NRA.

Guy must of made millions off of idiots. Now he is desperate.

Maybe a better owner will take over the facilities and make it into something decent.

Like I stated previously, I seriously got my money's worth out of the place, and I felt the training I got there was quite good. I truly do hope someone else takes it over and turns it into something better than that nut-job Piazza ever could.

 

[dangerranger60]

This isn't even the first time he has done this! His first go was set up like a pyramid scheme Where each member had to bring in so many new members to keep their membership, and then sell new memberships to upgrade their positions. In order to keep the Feds off his rear he had to provide some service for the money. Thus the training....
But the training was good, and as long as you did not invest in too many Gold or Platinum upgrades you get what you pay for.
I know several people who bought in at the highest levels expecting Luxury hotels, spa, and concierge service , But when they got there it was a dirt range in the desert. After a few lawsuits the good Dr. restructured and was able to keep the property at least.

If you do a web search I'm sure all the old hate is still there for your reading pleasure. DR

 

[Certaindeaf]

Always sounded like timeshare flimflammery to me. Feck that drama sideways from the getgo.

 

[Stomper]

Always sounded like timeshare flimflammery to me. Feck that drama sideways from the getgo.

Front Sight Amway or Front Sight Herbalife?

 

[No_Regerts]

This isn't even the first time he has done this! His first go was set up like a pyramid scheme Where each member had to bring in so many new members to keep their membership, and then sell new memberships to upgrade their positions. In order to keep the Feds off his rear he had to provide some service for the money. Thus the training....
But the training was good, and as long as you did not invest in too many Gold or Platinum upgrades you get what you pay for.
I know several people who bought in at the highest levels expecting Luxury hotels, spa, and concierge service , But when they got there it was a dirt range in the desert. After a few lawsuits the good Dr. restructured and was able to keep the property at least.

If you do a web search I'm sure all the old hate is still there for your reading pleasure. DR

Front Sightentology

 

[GWS]

I've been a member since the Chuck Taylor/ Bakersfield days. Training was fun and I learned a lot. I don't know if Nevada was always part of Naish's plan or he got starry eyed when Front Sight started to take off. Of course, California's laws had a big part in his decision to move but that was the start of the whole pyramid. Buy this level of membership and he'd give you a bunch of memberships that you could sell for massive profits. Upgrade to some new grandiose titled membership and get even more except, of course, that everyone now had stacks of memberships to sell so no one was going to pay the $20,000 that each of these memberships were supposedly worth. Nor would they sell at $2,000 or even $200. On the Calguns site you would see them for sale all the time, with ever decreasing prices.
I think I still have 90 or so of those certificates.
Years back , I started getting those updates about how Naish was getting sued by platinum (the highest of the original 1st Family memberships) members for failing to deliver on his promises, a developable lot on the FrontSight NV land. Then things got worse and I speculate that he got loans from more sources to pay those suits off. Development of the FrontSight property went at a snail's pace, with the announcement of a paved road into Front Sight and a few permanent structures finally going up and hiring more "instructors" When I took a class in 2005 there were well over a thousand people taking classes that weekend. The instruction suffered, IMO because of it. When I took my first classes in Bakersfield, the instructors were ex police or military with real life experience. These classes were outstanding with lots of trigger and simulator time. The classes in Nevada had become a mill, get 'em in, get ''em out, with instructors off the street who were taught the "Front Sight" way of instruction but no real combat or street experience. They followed a script, rigidly. And while they were taught the Front Sight way of instruction, they were not good instructors. For example, in a 4 day defensive pistol class I took in 2009, there was a lady who just wasn't getting it. In the old days an instructor would have worked one on one with her. In my 09 class, they just paired her off with the better shooters in the class while they stuck to their script. In short they left her behind. I wrote a lengthy letter criticizing that tactic which was never responded to.
The final straw for me was a 2day tactical shotgun class in 2011. They lost track of the students such as who should be on the firing line or who had gone through the simulator and such. It was a real cluster bubblegum
I haven't been back since.

I have graduate certificates from their 4 day tactical and 4day advanced tactical shotgun classes as well as multiple 2 & 4 day rifle and pistol courses so I like to think I have enough experience to tell how a class should or shouldn't be run. When I first took classes at Front Sight, they made damn sure you knew safe and competent gun handling. Everyone felt they were better shooters when they finished their courses. That included rank beginners, know it all guys who thought they knew how to shoot, (like me) and even law enforcement officers. We all felt had really learned there.
,
Nowadays, They appeared to only be interested in numbers. This many people were "trained"this weekend, That many trained there this year.. But I wonder, how many were properly trained. They certainly should have refunded whatever that one lady paid.
I had gotten my money's worth from Front Sight before they left California, so maybe I shouldn't be complaining, but the fall from what they were to what they are now is kinda heartbreaking. It was once an outstanding training experience. Now I don't know what to call it.

 

[Cerberus Group]

It'll be 3 years this coming summer that they contacted me about putting their rifle instructors through some training.

They sent 3 up here for 2 1/2 days. Went over their script, what was covered, differences in what they do vs me. Had a good time with them, they showed a lot of potential, but unfortunately because of the script, they were sadly held back.

Sending them out to get exposure to different views, showed some effort that things might be changing...I keep in touch with them...a tough gig to pull when you're restricted on what you can do.

 

[Greenandy]

My wife and I both enjoyed the classes we took at FS. We feel like we learned a lot and got our money's worth. I had bought memberships from another member, but it wasn't expensive because everyone had memberships to sell. Again, we got more than our moneys worth.

With the thousands of people being trained at FS each week and all of these free classes and discounted lifetime memberships floating around, I often wondered how the place made any money. I did meet people that paid $1,000 for classes. But there weren't enough of them to cover the overhead of running a place as large as FS. The house of cards is now falling down.