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BUT, But, but........

Brandon said to buy an Electric Car. And then, Blue state by Blue state all along the west coast (wait, OR?) the legislatures started to jump on the band wagon.

Aloha, Mark
Yup, Oregon. They want an all EV mandate by 2035 same as the PRK. You will hear more about it after the election.
 
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RE : More on those EVs

Toyota comments on EVs



A Dose of Reality Depending how and when you count, Japan's Toyota is the world's largest automaker. According to Wheels, Toyota and Volkswagen vie for the title of the world's largest, with each taking the crown from the other as the market moves. That's including Volkswagen's inherent advantage of sporting 12 brands versus Toyota's four. Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, and Bentley are included in the Volkswagen brand family.

GM, America's largest automaker, is about half Toyota's size thanks to its 2009 bankruptcy and restructuring. Toyota is actually a major car manufacturer in the United States; in 2016 it made about 81% of the cars it sold in the U.S. right here in its nearly half a dozen American plants. If you're driving a Tundra, RAV4, Camry, or Corolla it was probably American-made in a red state. Toyota was among the first to introduce gas-electric hybrid cars into the market, with the Prius twenty years ago. It hasn't been afraid to change the car game.

All of this is to point out that Toyota understands both the car market and the infrastructure that supports it perhaps better than any other manufacturer on the planet. It hasn't grown its footprint through acquisitions, as Volkswagen has, and it hasn't undergone bankruptcy and bailout as GM has. Toyota has grown by building reliable cars for decades.

When Toyota offers an opinion on the car market, it's probably worth listening to. This week, Toyota reiterated an opinion it has offered before. That opinion is straightforward: The world is not yet ready to support a fully electric auto fleet.

Toyota's head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: "If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability."

Wimmer's remarks come on the heels of GM's announcement that it will phase out all gas internal combustion engines (ICE) by 2035. Other manufacturers, including Mini, have followed suit with similar announcements.

Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world's largest engine manufacturer when you take its boat, motorcycle, lawnmower, and other engines it makes outside the auto market into account. Honda competes in those markets with Briggs & Stratton and the increased electrification of lawnmowers, weed trimmers, and the like.

Wimmer noted that while manufacturers have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world's cars are electric at this point. For price, range, infrastructure, affordability, and other reasons, buyers continue to choose ICE over electric, and that's even when electric engines are often subsidized with tax breaks to bring pricetags down.

The scale of the switch hasn't even been introduced into the conversation in any systematic way yet. According to Finances Online, there are 289.5 million cars just on U.S. roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered. Toyota's RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the U.S. market in 2019, with Honda's CR-V in second. GM's top seller, the Chevy Equinox, comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue. This is in the U.S. market, mind. GM only has one entry in the top 15 in the U.S. Toyota and Honda dominate, with a handful each in the top 15.

Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren't there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That's about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.

Simply put, we are gonna need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids , a WHOLE LOT bigger.

But instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking the boat we have now. The power outages in California and Texas — the largest U.S. states by population and by car ownership — exposed issues with powering needs even at current usage levels. Increasing usage of wind and solar, neither of which can be throttled to meet demand, and both of which prove unreliable in crisis, has driven some coal and natural gas generators offline Wind simply runs counter to needs — it generates too much power when we tend not to need it, and generates too little when we need more. The storage capacity to account for this doesn't exist yet.

We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we're all going to be forced to drive electric cars. Whether we're charging them at home or charging them on the road, we will be charging them frequently. Every gas station you see on the roadside today will have to be wired to charge electric cars, and charge speeds will have to be greatly increased. Current technology enables charges in "as little as 30 minutes," according to Kelly Blue Book. That best-case-scenario fast charging cannot be done on home power. It uses direct current and specialized systems. Charging at home on alternating current can take a few hours to overnight to fill the battery, and will increase the home power bill. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using natural gas, petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric power according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I left out biomass because, despite Austin, Texas' experiment with purchasing a biomass plant to help power the city, biomass is proving to be irrelevant in the grand energy scheme thus far. Austin didn't even turn on its biomass plant during the recent freeze.

Half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend at an electron pump. It's about 5 to 10 times longer than a current trip to the gas pump tends to take when pumps can push 4 to 5 gallons into your tank per minute. That's for consumer cars, not big rigs that have much larger tanks. Imagine the lines that would form at the pump, every day, all the time, if a single charge time isn't reduced by 70 to 80 percent. We can expect improvements, but those won't come without cost. Nothing does. There is no free lunch. Electrifying the auto fleet will require a massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. Elon Musk recently said we might need double the amount of power we're currently generating if we go electric. He's not saying this from a position of opposing electric cars. His Tesla dominates that market and he presumably wants to sell even more of them.

Toyota has publicly warned about this twice, while its smaller rival GM is pushing to go electric. GM may be virtue signaling to win favor with those in power in California and Washington and in the media. Toyota's addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn't saying none of this can be done, by the way. It's just saying that so far, the conversation isn't anywhere near serious enough to get things done.
BUT, But, but......
BRANDON and the Dems say we MUST.

Rrrrrright.....

BTW, what's coming with the lastest Govt. Vehicle Mandate?

Aloha, Mark

PS......also, did everyone see/read this thread?
 
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Y’all DO realize all this “all EV and no ICE vehicles” is all just part of a massive subterfuge to drive the vast majority of people out of private ownership of vehicles and onto “public transit”, which also means pushing more and more people into consolidated urban/sub-urban population centers where they can be more easily controlled…. right?


That isn’t a crackpot conspiracy theory, it’s what the elites have said with their own mouths (documented on video) what they are going to do.


You will own nothing, you will eat bugs, and you will be happy.


Right, Klaus? o_O
 
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The way this is going got me to order another genset. Have a LP gas one that will run 7K watts. Damn thing is about 15 years old. Decided be nice to have a back up in case so just ordered up a dual fuel that will run 9500K wattage. Wife will probably roll her eyes when she sees it next week but, if we do lose the power she will not be rolling her eye's when we have AC :D
Can I ask what brand lasted 15 years and what brand / model you just got?
I've been looking at duel fuel DuraMax ....
Also looking at Solar portable models for quiet hours..
 
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Can I ask what brand lasted 15 years and what brand / model you just got?
I've been looking at duel fuel DuraMax ....
Also looking at Solar portable models for quiet hours..
The old one is a "Sportsman". Bought from Home Depot.They still look like they still sell them but I have no idea who actually makes them.
The one I just bought is a DuraMax 12000. The one that's 15 years old has had not many hours on it. Since where we lived power outages were rare. Lot of years it was never used. Longest run was one time we were out for over 1 day. Thing still fires right up when I test it now and then. The new one is nice. Electric start and unlike the old one it charges the battery when it runs. So far only have done some testing and break in runs with it and it seems great. Nice thing about the new one is can even run our electric dryer if needed.
 
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Gensets, just to be aware.... contractor types are typically not well suited for some electronics, can fail to function and can even fry them. The power waveform produced is typically not as "clean"/conditioned to the same standards as other genset types.

It's also important to check specs to guage actual output ratings and durations. There is no industry standard for actual genset ratings so you have to take them with a grain of salt and really dig into the specs.. that are not always readily available without inquiring with the mfg. IE., a 5k rated genset is "peak output", but durantion may be anywhere from a few seconds to 30min before dropping into sustainable output (which may also have a duration limit). Some may also have a 3rd tier constant running sustainable output.

Also to be aware that emissions and sound is also quite high. If it's a genset you want to be able to use... say... for camping or portable outings in public spaces, contractor type gensets are typically prohibited just about anywhere.
 
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Yarome, what genset would you recommend for running electronics such as tv, router, recharging cell phones? I have a genset to basically run a few lights and the freezer. Haven't really thought about the electronics.
What I did a LONG time ago was buy one of these:
power line conditioner for generator. Places like Amazon and such carry several.
The first one I bought was not really for the Genset. It was the first flat screen I bought. Damn thing was as much as a decent used car back then and was warned that power fluctuations and such could be bad. So bought one from Amazon and its been hooked to the TV ever since. The Desktop and camera system we use a UPS, and a sure protector on at all times. So when I have to go to gen power its plugged into those. So far after decades of doing this with a few gensets, nothing has been harmed. You can buy gensets that are made safe for electronics, most of them are also about as quiet as possible. These are the kind you can use in many camp grounds and such without pissing off all the neighbors. :D
Tend to be more expensive for one with a large output. All in what it is you want.
Where I live I do not have to worry about the Genset making noise. I do have one small Inverter Genset that is the kind that's quiet. I only bought it because I wanted one small enough I could toss in one of the vehicle's and drive to the part of the property I had to do some work and have power. You could buy one of these and use it for the sensitive stuff like your TV and PC if you don't have protection on them. They also have the advantage of being small enough to pack along if you so desire. The 12K unit I bought for the house "could" be packed up but, not something I would want to do as its far too heavy to do this easily.

 
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I continue to look for the right mix of portability and functionality with a high reliability factor. One of the options I'm looking into is a pair of the Honda 2200i (reliability, clean power and low dba) and ability to pair them and increase overall power if needed. I'd like one to be converted to Propane use for additional fueling options. The conversion kit seems straightforward but I'm gonna lose my warranty for sure...
Anybody have any experience with this setup?

My 20 year old 660 Honda generator still starts like new when needed once every year or so even with poor maintenance habits, it just doesn't provide enough work for my needs..
 
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Yarome, what genset would you recommend for running electronics such as tv, router, recharging cell phones? I have a genset to basically run a few lights and the freezer. Haven't really thought about the electronics.
While not all inclusive, Yamaha, Honda, Generac are your best offerings* on the market for reliable and safe power generation. As mentioned, there is no industry standard or regulation so any claims are generated solely by the mfg's. The above three actually rate out honestly and apply standards that are consistent with end user expectations.

Ie., Outputs are what they say they are, surge/max output is more than just a 5sec burst, last for a useable duration, and sinwave type and output is consistent, "clean" and well regluated.

For the article, some of that is kind of misleading. Surge protectors only save you in the case of a catastrophic surge regardless of power source. Using an inverter generator is not a guarantee. (Kinda like what I was saying earlier... they are not created equal).

Things that are true though are using a line conditioner. If you have a crappy, poorly regluated power source, a conditioner "can" help, but it doesn't actually change the sinewave type input/output. Some items may still not run, even with a conditioner. Ie., microwave ovens are notoriously picky. Magnometers vary and some simply won't fire if the input sinewave isn't to their likeing.

UPS backups are good. Basically... your generator charges the battery and the output from the battery is inverted and conditioned. Of course, it's completely unnecessary if your genset is already outputting well regulated and conditioned power, but it's an option for those with "lesser" gensets. Basically... it's doing what your genset should be doing, anyway.

UPS's are convenient, and give you a plan B if your genset goes down, but also to be aware that you can do the same thing for less money (battery + charger + quality inverter). They are a convenient option though for end users... although... you're paying a massive premium vs. capability and "can" still have issues if the regulated power output is still "dirty" due to cheap/crappy Chineseium components.

*Note: When I say "best offerings" that is taking into account maintanance parts and service center availability as well. A genset doesn't do you much good if you can't get filters, replace a cap or spark arrestor and such for it or have it repaired if needed.
 
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I continue to look for the right mix of portability and functionality with a high reliability factor. One of the options I'm looking into is a pair of the Honda 2200i (reliability, clean power and low dba) and ability to pair them and increase overall power if needed. I'd like one to be converted to Propane use for additional fueling options. The conversion kit seems straightforward but I'm gonna lose my warranty for sure...
Anybody have any experience with this setup?

My 20 year old 660 Honda generator still starts like new when needed once every year or so even with poor maintenance habits, it just doesn't provide enough work for my needs..
Those have a reputation of being the one others are judged by. They are VERY nice. They are of course pricey but you get what you pay for. If you want something you can pack around to places and have power? They are nice since they are very quite vs how much power you get. They tend to last VERY well if you are going to use them a lot. As for hooking multiple in line I have not tried this but have seen multiple articles showing the way to do so. Looks very strait forward and simple to do.
 
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I continue to look for the right mix of portability and functionality with a high reliability factor. One of the options I'm looking into is a pair of the Honda 2200i (reliability, clean power and low dba) and ability to pair them and increase overall power if needed. I'd like one to be converted to Propane use for additional fueling options. The conversion kit seems straightforward but I'm gonna lose my warranty for sure...
Anybody have any experience with this setup?

My 20 year old 660 Honda generator still starts like new when needed once every year or so even with poor maintenance habits, it just doesn't provide enough work for my needs..
I'm quite familiar. My "go to's" are dual Yamaha's. Basically the same animal as the honda's with some slight difference that matter to me, but likely not to most. One to consider thought is that hondas use a fuel pump and yamaha's are gravity feed. (fuel pumps adding an additional point of failure).

The Honda's you can pair dual "main" gensets or with a "main" and a companion... at a cost savings, but I still prefer 2 main portables. It allows you to rotate the run hours and if one fails, you still have a funtional main genset. YMMV

Doing an LP conversion is an option, but to be aware, with LP, you will have around a 20% loss of output. You would also need to run them both on the same fuel in order to sync them, but.... I'm not entirely sure they will sync on LP. Power output has to be sync'ed up between them for combined output and I'm not sure if it will if power levels are not within a specified parameter. Not a big deal though... if it doesn't then just realize you need to run them on gas for combined output. And to be honest... I don'tknow anyone that's tried syncing on LP. I haven't, but considering they are designed for gas and have an expected output, I kinda guess that they wouldn't.

Side note: Also to be aware that when running tandem gensets of that type, max output of each is reduced and capped. Ie., A 2.5k with a 2.1k continuous output is likely to drop to 1.8k each for 3.6k combined... not 5k or 4.2k.

The main attraction for LP is being able to store fuel for long periods. Ie., SHTF use only. For "in-use" gensets it's a PITA. LP and standard fuel typcially costs about the same, but LP is much more difficult and troublesome to source, and there is the additional weight of the tanks themselves. Tanks also need to be tested and certified occassionally.

Plan "B" being to use something to stabilize your gas for longer storage capability and remembering to rotate it with fresh at least annually.

I guess one other advantage for LP would be if you have a large stationary LP tank. It would increase run time not having to fill fuel tanks or using more limited extended gas tanks. If your power requirements are low, even with the output loss it would still be doable. Running an extended run time gas tank isn't that big of a deal though. YMMV
 
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Those have a reputation of being the one others are judged by. They are VERY nice. They are of course pricey but you get what you pay for. If you want something you can pack around to places and have power? They are nice since they are very quite vs how much power you get. They tend to last VERY well if you are going to use them a lot. As for hooking multiple in line I have not tried this but have seen multiple articles showing the way to do so. Looks very strait forward and simple to do.
Yeah. Honda/Yamaha are pretty much the gold standard for portable inverter gensets.. and for very good reason. IMHO, they are well worth the price tag, no matterr how you cut it, but if it's just not within a persons budget, there are other options. With those 2... you really aren't just paying "only for the name". Those types of genets... you WILL get exactly what you pay for. :s0155:
 
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Doing an LP conversion is an option, but to be aware, with LP, you will have around a 20% loss of output. You would also need to run them both on the same fuel in order to sync them, but.... I'm not entirely sure they will sync on LP. Power output has to be sync'ed up between them for combined output and I'm not sure if it will if power levels are not within a specified parameter. Not a big deal though... if it doesn't then just realize you need to run them on gas for combined output. And to be honest... I don'tknow anyone that's tried syncing on LP. I haven't, but considering they are designed for gas and have an expected output, I kinda guess that they wouldn't.
From what I understand, synching gensets together is about the phase & voltage/etc. params of the gensets, not wattage.
 
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From what I understand, synching gensets together is about the phase & voltage/etc. params of the gensets, not wattage.
Here is an interesting article on it for those who want to try:

 
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From what I understand, synching gensets together is about the phase & voltage/etc. params of the gensets, not wattage.
Wattage is easier for folks to understand... but yeah.... phase and current, but within a programmed rpm range. They auto throttle down to sync and have set lower and upper ranges while in tandem operation. That makes me wonder if operating on LP, would it still be within that limited range of operation since operating on LP isn't part of it's normal programming.

Honestly though, I have no idea. Never heard of anyone trying it and never had occassion to test it out myself.
 

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