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But, but, he did charts and made a video...

He also seems to assume that in a bug out situation the .22 rifles purpose would be for defense. Want to bet he's a city boy?

Why on earth would anyone want a good small game rifle that is easy for most anyone to use and have good hits at ranges that are difficult for most people with a handgun.

He also apparently lumps all .22's into the same bar on his graph. I'm sorry to point out that a bullet fired from my Bernardelli vest pocket .22 short is going to perform quite differently than a CCI .22 Stinger from my Mossberg 146b.

I could ramble on and on (as the video did) and dispute most of the "points" made in this "study". If he wanted to describe his published report as his personal / opinions observations based on a statistically small and flawed batch of somewhat random data I'd find it much easier to swallow than trying to represent it as a "study".
Ruhroh! It sounds like the maker of the video (I din click) is Gun Kid!
 
I think the video was just trying to give the best vague information they could over the facts that they gathered. There was some good information that does seem to hold weight,
 
I'm starting to hate these analyses. I made it to the 85% mark before I started to bang on my head with a coffee cup. All things being equal...but they're not. Real world conditions are not equal, people are not equal. I can imagine the blank stares people get from the poor guys behind the gun counters when they walk in pulling internet statistics out of their a@@es and start asking every question ever asked on a gun forum.
I think it's time to start administering IQ tests at the front door of gun shops as well as being a requirement to post statistics online.
As they say.... The good news is, anybody can access the internet and post anything they want. The bad news is though, anybody can access the internet and post anything they want. Cigars is cranky, get off my lawn.
Just saying.
 
It is worthwhile to look at charts , tables , statistics etc....After all your life or the lives of others may be in the balance.

But no chart , table , statistic is worth a damn if you can't shoot and handle the gun that you choose to use.

Are there calibers and bullet designs that are better suited to some applications more than others...yes.
Are there firearms that are better suited to some uses more than others....yes again.

The tricks here are :
To find what works best for you in your situation...not what works for someone else.
Not too getting to wrapped up in : I don't have or use the gun and ammo combo that whatever "expert" I am watching / reading / listening to or going their class , uses or likes....
And remembering that just 'cause you have a "inferior" gun and ammo combo , that does not mean that your only option is to curl up and wait to die.....

Use the gun you have to the best of your ability,
Practice with it , so safe handling and good marksmanship , become "second nature" or a muscle memory.
Good practice combined with the willingness to use what you know , to survive the encounter...in my experience , beats any chart , table or statistic.
Andy
 
The idea of a .22lr as a bug out rifle is not predicated upon it's human stopping ability but upon the idea of being able to carry a lot of perhaps "effective enough" ammo for the same weight as better killers, while being way better for game procurement.

That said, if I'm bugging out, my oldest kids have the .22lr duty. I'm going 7.62x39 or x51. I want something that dissuades even those behind some cover.
Its not just about self defense.
As a food gathering cartridge, the .22LR beats everything else hands down.
If you are starving, you will be hunting for anything that is made of meat. Most of the time, that will mean small game like dogs, cats, squirrels and birds, for which higher-powered centerfire cartridges are too powerful. Out to 50 yards or so it will even do the job on deer if you know what you are doing. And while hardly ideal, there are worse choices for self defense than a 10/22 with a 25 round magazine full of CCI Stingers.
 
The biggest issue I have with a .22LR for self defense...is not the bullet itself but the failure of some .22LR ammo :
To fire , extract , eject or if a semi auto , failure to cause the slide or bolt to operate as a semi auto should...
In some cases even the firearm's throat chamber may be too tight for certain brands or types of .22LR ammo.

Some .22 LR caliber firearms are picky about what they "like" in order for them to work well...
Some .22 LR ammo is infamous for "duds"...
If we get into a ammo shortage again... You may be outta luck.
It pays in in the long run to stock up now...with the ammo your gun likes.

Granted that some of these issues can be resolved by what type of .22 firearm you are using...but with that said...I have had issues with .22 LR ammo even in revolvers and single shot rifles...

Again not saying not to use a .22LR ...but choose the ammo wisely.
Use and stock up on what ammo works best out of your gun....
Andy
 
Clothing on the perp comes into play also. A leather jacket with a vest and a sweatshirt might just make that 22 or 380 non lethal. Strictly a summer gun:D
 
1) May I put in a good word for .357 Magnum? Best all around caliber ever! There are a lot of fine hand guns that shine in that caliber. Works well coming out of a rifle too.
I have never felt poorly armed with a .357.
2) So based on the 1 shot stop, I should carry a .32 acp with a binary trigger
Or a Vz-61 Skorpion machine pistol. :D
 
Didn't the British have some huge big bore revolvers back in the late 19th early 20th century? Big heavy bullet. Low velocity. Man stoppers? I wonder how those big bore revolver cartridges would measure up today? Dunno.
That's the idea, and @Boats is right about the use of those revolvers being intended for cavalry in particular. Some experimentation was done with the C-96 in 30 Mauser, but they always went back to .45 cal varients. Webley .455 kicks like a magnum, similar to .357 with a bit more thud and slow roll, so i imagine them to be potent. There was a time where they experimented with autos in all sorts of calibers, but even then the focus quickly became to get an auto in .455 Webley (for various reasons).

However I have never shot anyone outside of sports, nor seen the results.
Also, this is the short response.
 
I was a little confused by the stats at first, seeing how everyone says a .380 is no better than throwing dirt clods, and a .45 will throw a bad guy across the room. :)

Thinking about it further, one can see where any gun at all will be effective in many/most cases.

For most, the sight of a gun will prompt "Eek! A gun! Run away!"

For most, the shock of a bullet wound will prompt "Ouch! I've been shot! Run away!"

It would be hard to statistically capture data on what percentage of attackers were gun-shy cowards who would have been stopped with a BB gun, and what percentage were determined, intoxicated, or drugged enough to require serious physiological damage to stop.

I probably don't know what I'm talking about here, but I suspect that the only way you could reach any sort of definitive conclusion would be to compile data specific to the latter group only.

I've been told that criminals in the latter group are much less common than those in the former, but it would be because of them that I would rather have a .45 than a .380.

Consider the U.S. Army's experience with the .38 Long Colt in the Philippines, leading to the adoption of the .45 acp. Against an aggressive and determined foe, bigger really is better. All else being equal, of course. :)
 
Clothing on the perp comes into play also. A leather jacket with a vest and a sweatshirt might just make that 22 or 380 non lethal. Strictly a summer gun:D
Not trying to pick on you or anyone else, but .380 ammo has come a long ways in the past decade. Even my truncated hollow points worked well in the old days running in my '73 PPK/s. The Hornady defensive rounds work good for winter shooting and the 99 grain HST works great in the summer.

I trust my PPK/s - it is easily concealable, fast to draw and very accurate for its size. It just seems comfortable, well balanced and to be easy to get on target. As with any pistol, I am very comfortable with it and have had lots of practice - good shot placement comes easy.
 
I carry a S&W .380 EZ and for a ammo choice I use Precision One 90 Gr. HP/XTP. Have fired many rounds on the range without a hick up. Most .380 ammo is tested using a small mouse gun (2.5 in. barrel) While the EZ has a 3.6 in.barrel.
Here is a video about it.
 
I'm starting to hate these analyses. I made it to the 85% mark before I started to bang on my head with a coffee cup. All things being equal...but they're not. Real world conditions are not equal, people are not equal. I can imagine the blank stares people get from the poor guys behind the gun counters when they walk in pulling internet statistics out of their a@@es and start asking every question ever asked on a gun forum.
I think it's time to start administering IQ tests at the front door of gun shops as well as being a requirement to post statistics online.
As they say.... The good news is, anybody can access the internet and post anything they want. The bad news is though, anybody can access the internet and post anything they want. Cigars is cranky, get off my lawn.

Just saying.

I just saw an analysis that shows 1-7 people hate analysis.:rolleyes:
 
Why you need over 12" of penetration.

Shooting suspect 5'9" and 370 pounds.

Second 4th of July shooting suspect arrested

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