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I always say that when you move out in the country to get away from civilization you end with 3 other neighbors who all moved out into the country to get away from others.

At least in town people didn't have refrigerators in their yard.
 
That gate wouldnt have been installed on North Fork road if it wasnt. Heard a lot stories when our friends lived there. Witnessed some of it when we stayed up there. It was. Really really sad. Not sure where our morals as a society went so wrong and I am not talking about religon. Just right from wrong. Then there is the flip side. Knocked on a door of a house on a main road in a small community looking for some info. Guy came out of the house with a rifle raised and all he would do is grunt. Backed out slowly and left. Are you really going to shoot someone asking for help? Guess I am getting old.
Yep, pretty sad where we are as a society. I vividly remember the armed National Guards blocking HWY 22 at Mehama. They weren't joking when they said we couldn't pass, I tried to explain that I needed to check on my rental property but they weren't having it. So I did what I thought was smart, came up the canyon from the other side of the river and bypassed them 1/4 mile down the road. I'm glad your guy with a gun encounter ended up without fireworks.
 
I liked your post here because I appreciated your willingness to share perspectives that may be contrary to the broader audience on this particular forum. That is a quality reflection on you and, perhaps likewise, a quality reflection on NWFA that tolerates a wide variety of perspectives from all its members. That said, I would not hesitate to shoot a looter. Even though my property may get demolished by fire, it's still my property and mine to protect. A looter is just as much an intruder on my property as the attacker who invades my home in the middle of the night. Either way dead.
Thank you.
We are the sum of all of our experiences.
I try to post comments that come from my experiences.
Some of which , even if shared by others , will be contrary....since at the end of day...even collective experiences have a personal basis.
Andy
 
Just like we had to do here in the Santiam Canyon, looting was quite a big issue that got suppressed by the news for some reason, they even went as far as denying it was happening.
When we had the first big fire, (2020) there was a lot trash talk from the left to "not spread rumors" about people starting fires, saying that it was all false. We had been listening to the scanner and heard straight from the CCSO about who they were looking for and why, which affirmed that was BS. We heard it from the "horses mouth" but the media was directly lying.
 
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When we had the first big fire, (2020) there was a lot trash talk from the left to "not spread rumors" about people starting fires, saying that it was all false. We had been listening to the scanner and heard straight from the CCSO about who they were looking for and why which affirmed that was BS. We heard it from the "horses mouth" but the media was directly lying.
The media was lying you say!! How can that be? They are the bastions of democracy!
 
Just like ODF&W telling me there weren't any wolves near Mt. Hood around 2000 after I followed the tracks of one, which in turn was following deer.
And they all wonder why we are losing faith in what they say. But such answers usually come down from on high and the 'company line' is what they are told to say. Not staying in their lane can be career suicide (Note what happened to the FBI ASIC after the first NOLA presser. She just got reassigned. Shi**y weather in upper MT this time of year!).
Forest management people are supposedly the 'experts' too.
 
And they all wonder why we are losing faith in what they say. But such answers usually come down from on high and the 'company line' is what they are told to say. Not staying in their lane can be career suicide (Note what happened to the FBI ASIC after the first NOLA presser. She just got reassigned. Shi**y weather in upper MT this time of year!).
Forest management people are supposedly the 'experts' too.
Dad was a career Forest Service employee, starting as a trail crew member during the summers when he was in school, then a lookout for a couple of years before joining the Air Force during the Korean War and retiring in 86. Even at that time (86) he was pretty disgusted with the policies being enacted. The Spotted Owl debacle was the first one that didn't set well with him. The "studies" were flawed and were basically setting an agenda that was false. The USFS doesn't manage forests anymore. It's all BS.
 
Dad was a career Forest Service employee, starting as a trail crew member during the summers when he was in school, then a lookout for a couple of years before joining the Air Force during the Korean War and retiring in 86. Even at that time (86) he was pretty disgusted with the policies being enacted. The Spotted Owl debacle was the first one that didn't set well with him. The "studies" were flawed and were basically setting an agenda that was false. The USFS doesn't manage forests anymore. It's all BS.
I always point out to people that you do not hear about managed forests (Weyerhouser, GP, etc) burning up. Fire damage is when the bases and roots are burned excessively. When fires move through the tops of trees it is quick and damage is recoverable. Every time? Not always but the fires move faster across the tops. Oregon's Greenies (rhymes with weenies) have caused untold damage over the years.
 
It's not just L.A. Remember the Oakland-Berkeley firestorm in 1991 that destroyed 3,280 homes. Remember the Pardise firestorm in 2018 that destroyed more than 50,000 structures and killed 85 people. There are dozens more examples. Everyone loves the balmy California climate, until the day of reckoning comes when they learn the hard way that everthing south of Redding is literally a fire zone.

I used to live and work in California and at one time was part of a group that worked with the state fire marshal's office on this issue. The problem was obvious, and every government in the state knew it. Firefighters call it the "urban-wildland interface." In regular speak that means building homes right up against nature's fire fuel sources. And mom nature provides loads of fuel everywhere south of Redding. Time and again these fires start in natural growth areas on the edge of high-density neighborhoods, especially neighborhoods built in canyons and draws that channel the wind, and once they catch, Whoosh! There it goes. Despite every city in California knowing this obvious risk, they continue to let developers build high-density neighborhoods in those high-risk areas, and the state does nothing to stop them. Golly, do ya think $$$ has anything to do with it? Once the fires hit, the developers are long gone with cash in pocket, city councilmembers have long since enjoyed their graft, city and state permiting employees have long since retired with their extravagent CalPERS pensions, and the ultimate suckers, those who went into extreme debt to buy homes in the worst fire hazard zones, lose everything in one fell swoop of fire.
Welcome to California.
 
Decades ago now we had a home in Pollock Pines, California. There was a forest around Hwy 50 between Twin Bridges to Meyers. You could see the red sky. We created burn piles and did a lot of clean up to keep our home safe. There was a burn ban in the summer months but once the ban was lifted we burned the piles of green waste. I bought a 2 cycle weed whacker and kept the dry grass bare to reduce the fire danger as well.
 
[I remember the only house the survive tha Oakland fire was made of concrete, The shell was there but the interior was toast!

When one says that we are the only ones who care about what is ours it is true, yet people are asleep at the wheel. Very few things done early, and so many things that got put off! We MUST NOT rely on the government to be there when SHTF.
QUOTE="Croat, post: 4039857, member: 82219"]
It's not just L.A. Remember the Oakland-Berkeley firestorm in 1991 that destroyed 3,280 homes. Remember the Pardise firestorm in 2018 that destroyed more than 50,000 structures and killed 85 people. There are dozens more examples. Everyone loves the balmy California climate, until the day of reckoning comes when they learn the hard way that everthing south of Redding is literally a fire zone.

I used to live and work in California and at one time was part of a group that worked with the state fire marshal's office on this issue. The problem was obvious, and every government in the state knew it. Firefighters call it the "urban-wildland interface." In regular speak that means building homes right up against nature's fire fuel sources. And mom nature provides loads of fuel everywhere south of Redding. Time and again these fires start in natural growth areas on the edge of high-density neighborhoods, especially neighborhoods built in canyons and draws that channel the wind, and once they catch, Whoosh! There it goes. Despite every city in California knowing this obvious risk, they continue to let developers build high-density neighborhoods in those high-risk areas, and the state does nothing to stop them. Golly, do ya think $$$ has anything to do with it? Once the fires hit, the developers are long gone with cash in pocket, city councilmembers have long since enjoyed their graft, city and state permiting employees have long since retired with their extravagent CalPERS pensions, and the ultimate suckers, those who went into extreme debt to buy homes in the worst fire hazard zones, lose everything in one fell swoop of fire.
Welcome to California.
[/QUOTE]
 
Decades ago now we had a home in Pollock Pines, California. There was a forest around Hwy 50 between Twin Bridges to Meyers. You could see the red sky. We created burn piles and did a lot of clean up to keep our home safe. There was a burn ban in the summer months but once the ban was lifted we burned the piles of green waste. I bought a 2 cycle weed whacker and kept the dry grass bare to reduce the fire danger as well.
You were a conscientious homeowner. Out of curiosity, were your neighbors in Pollock Pines as diligent as you were in protecting your home from fire?
 
It's not just L.A. Remember the Oakland-Berkeley firestorm in 1991 that destroyed 3,280 homes. Remember the Pardise firestorm in 2018 that destroyed more than 50,000 structures and killed 85 people. There are dozens more examples. Everyone loves the balmy California climate, until the day of reckoning comes when they learn the hard way that everthing south of Redding is literally a fire zone.

I used to live and work in California and at one time was part of a group that worked with the state fire marshal's office on this issue. The problem was obvious, and every government in the state knew it. Firefighters call it the "urban-wildland interface." In regular speak that means building homes right up against nature's fire fuel sources. And mom nature provides loads of fuel everywhere south of Redding. Time and again these fires start in natural growth areas on the edge of high-density neighborhoods, especially neighborhoods built in canyons and draws that channel the wind, and once they catch, Whoosh! There it goes. Despite every city in California knowing this obvious risk, they continue to let developers build high-density neighborhoods in those high-risk areas, and the state does nothing to stop them. Golly, do ya think $$$ has anything to do with it? Once the fires hit, the developers are long gone with cash in pocket, city councilmembers have long since enjoyed their graft, city and state permiting employees have long since retired with their extravagent CalPERS pensions, and the ultimate suckers, those who went into extreme debt to buy homes in the worst fire hazard zones, lose everything in one fell swoop of fire.
Welcome to California.
In West Covina there are nice homes built on what was a toxic dump when I lived there in the 80s. Out towards Big Bear off hwy 15, I forget the name of the city. It was a dry lake bed but now a huge community. California plays with people's lives as if they hold no value.

Up through the 1990s, in SoCal alone, there were probably 10 major military facilities (March AFB, Norton AFB, Tustin AB, 29 Palms, Pendleton, Long Beach Navy base, etc), not to mention those vendors and all the aero space companies. I think that money and power helped keep the state in check. A little balance.

Now there is just real estate and Hollywood (in SoCal). 100% money grabs. What's left is called, a personal problem. No accountability from the government because they pay the decision makers outrageous salaries to stay quiet. LA is probably the most corrupt system in a 1st world nation.
 
nwslopoke
Now there is just real estate and Hollywood (in SoCal). 100% money grabs. What's left is called, a personal problem. No accountability from the government because they pay the decision makers outrageous salaries to stay quiet. LA is probably the most corrupt system in a 1st world nation.
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Yep, pretty sad where we are as a society.
I don't know if we're really any worse as a society now compared to decades gone by, but there is one differential I do find rather troubling today: the low lifes who find a perverted joy out of harming, insulting, or humiliating innocent others just so they may record it on their cell phones and broadcast to the world wide web. That level of psychotic fetish seems quite a bit beyond the more familiar evils we've historically experienced.
 
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