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"The Alternative" to Lethal Force..................

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Chee-to, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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  2. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The story also features Ferguson, MO.

    "an odd-looking, blaze-orange device docked on a normal handgun barrel. When a bullet fired, it melded with an attached projectile the size of a ping-pong ball that flew with enough force to knock a person down, maybe break some ribs, but not kill him, the product’s makers said — even at close range."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...772af8-abb7-11e4-ad71-7b9eba0f87d6_story.html


    Carry a Taser, carry a bean bag shooter ( like a shot gun ) carry a baton, carry spray, but do not use your lethal tool - the pistol - for this purpose.
     
  3. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes, a bad idea. For one thing, you only have one shot, what if he misses? Are you going to carry 20 of these? And considering Ferguson, the "gentle giant" didn't go down after being hit by the first few bullets, what are the chances the ping pong ball would have stopped him?
     
    clearconscience, mjbskwim and Medic! like this.
  4. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    "an officer could make a history altering decision"
    "According to the FBI 461 felony suspects killed by police just last year"
    "Alternative Ballistics hopes to bring that number down"
    "Just because somebody is having a bad day or they're mentally unstable,
    does not mean they necessarily deserve to die."
     
  5. LaserMan

    LaserMan Eugene, OR Active Member

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    Here's an alternative - don't commit friggen crimes!
     
  6. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    This will get leos killed. A terrible idea.

    Everyone knows Im not a leos biggest fan.. That being said the two major stories involving officers I stand by 100%.. Those thugs asked for it..

    Meanwhile NO ONE investigates the officers who opened fire on two ladies driving a blue truck they "thought" looked like a suspects vehicle.. Where was the national outcry for that?

    Anyhow.. This is just a bad idea.
     
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  7. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    As with most non lethal alternatives, BAD IDEA!
    #1 It would embolden criminals to attack Police and do other crimes thinking they have less of a chance of getting seriously shot.

    #2 Just like Tasers it will be abused by some of the bad cops that are part of any Dept. Many examples of lazy or sadistic cops quick to tase a loud mouth granny or drunk after escalating the situation with a bad arrogant attitude towards the citizen.
     
    Slobray likes this.
  8. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Right now criminals know they may get there guts blown out. Or they may have there head exploded.
    Even so there not scared.

    Now teach them that there gona get bopped with a thumper round. And see how bold they get!
     
  9. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Looks like the orange tip that's required on plastic replica toy guns.
    Might get confusing to all involved if a bad guy gets his hands on one.
     
  10. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    Worst of all a kid might think it's a toy.
     
    U201491 likes this.
  11. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    In a life threatening situation I'm not going to want to be sliding something over the end of my loaded handgun with all the adrenaline pumping. My lack of SPECOPTACTICALRANGERSEAL training forces me to admit this shortcoming of mine.
     
    Darknight likes this.
  12. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    I think they should make it like a doughnut So the bullet still kills the perp and let the grand jury sort it out. Let the cops alone for Christ sake, the way to stop lethal force by police isn't them it's people, here's my solution dont be a dirt bag and if you are stopped by a police officer then be respectful. I've never been shot so there's my proof to stop lethal interactions with police
     
    Darknight likes this.
  13. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    I love your avatar . . .

    Sheldon
     
    clearconscience likes this.
  14. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    I can just see someone shooting their hand while trying to attach this thing. When one of them fails to capture the bullet properly and kills someone, who gets sued?
     
  15. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    finally something to shoot at the wife's yipyip dog when she is peeing on the carpet.
     
  16. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    UHhhh Yeah......................NO !
     
  17. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Last thing we need is these ghetto evil people thinking, knowing that leos aren't going to kill them. Then they will become even more brazen.
    Hey i might as well run, fight, or risk shooting back/attacking know they won't shoot me.

    Most criminals know their years of hard life and real world training prepares them for over taking a cop. The one thing that prevents it is the fear they may catch a bullet in their arse.
    I say let them carry two guns and leave the tazers and batons at home. OC spray is still good for watering the hippies
     
    bakersman345 likes this.
  18. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    Dumbest idea ever.

    First, how about we teach cops to keep their hands off their damned guns unless there's a good likelihood that lethal force will be necessary? All too often police use their firearms instead of dialogue, body language etc. If a citizen drew down on someone as routinely as cops do, we'd go to jail. There's no reason why a cop should get a different standard.

    Second, could we please pass a "beating" law that allows a much wider latitude for deployment of the baton? If you're MORE likely to get in trouble for beating someone's bubblegum with a baton than you are to get in trouble for shooting someone (the case now) we have a really perverse incentive system.

    And finally, if you want to employ something like a beanbag gun (what this device is trying to be) then make a separate system for it. The potential for confusion here is so great, the ease of shooting your own hand is so obvious, I can't believe anyone takes this seriously.

    LEOs have a continuum of force they're expected to use. Unfortunately, part of the continuum is over-used (tasers) and part is under-used (baton/asp) because it's abused by lawyers and juries seemingly unable to grasp that a beating is better than a shooting. And then the cops get in trouble for shooting someone.

    I've blasted the cops when they're wrong, but we've also put them in a terrible position when it comes to use of force. They're damned either way.

    We tell them they can't wade in and punch someone's lights or use joint-locks to get compliance, which then gets translated to "tase everyone." We hand them a baton and training for it, then show them the Rodney King video, guaranteeing they'll rarely use it.
    And then we have a system which punishes cops less for a questionable shoot than it does for a totally righteous use of force where the suspect has a lot of bruises afterward.

    I guess I'm weird. I'd much rather take a beating than take 4 shots to the chest. But COOF seems a lot like Holy Hand Grenade count-downs any more. "1...2...FIVE!" -And our courts and judges are largely to blame for that.
     
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  19. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Do the job and say that.
    When you deal with the scum of the earth you have to be able to get them before they get you.

    They will shoot you dead because they have a warrant or suspended license. Nothing.
    And will not hesitate or give an officer a chance to flee. They shoot to kill for nothing
     
  20. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    The alternative to lethal force is don't do anything that would compel someone to shoot you.

    Problem solved. o_O
     
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