The 224 Valkyrie

[zluthi]

what are your thoughts on the new 224 Valkyrie and tell me all you know about it, heard about it a few days ago and im very intrigued!

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[Goosebrown]

224 Valkyrie: Breaking Down the Numbers

It's a really smart round if you're limited to the AR platform.

Very smart.

However if you're bolt based, ifs a good average round with a few highlights vs other cartridges like low recoil and long barrel life. Other than that there are a lot of cartridges in 223 that out perform it like the 22-250, 22-250AI, and the 22BR which is also low recoil and long barrel life round at slightly lower bullet weight and higher speed.

22BR Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com

I like the idea of the 224V a lot but I'm not tied to the AR.

Cons are going to be brass and dies availability.

If you're really trying to reach out to 1000 it's a good, viable choice but I'd go 6 or 6.5 it 7mm of some sort myself in general.

 

[No_Regerts]

Its 6.8 spc brass necked down to .224. Little shorter and fatter case than a 5.56x45 that limits capacity a little while giving you the ability to load heavy for caliber bullets like 77 to 90gr that will still fit in a 6.8 AR magazine. More COAL lattitude, more powder capacity. Would make a hell of a varmint/predator/LR rifle. To me, its an AR compatible 22-250 with a barrel that has a faster and more practical twist.

 

[zluthi]

I don't do competition it will be just for coyotes and other small animals in central Oregon. I'm building an AR and was thinking using 1:7 twist in an 18" barrel and probably using the 70 grain shells. Does this sound like a good barrel for it? Im not going to be able to afford the optics for those 1000 yd shots but i figured id still rather go with the 224v over the .223/5.56 for a faster more accurate shot out to 600 or so yards which would be more reasonable for what im needing it for. Is this probable cause to go with the 224v or since im not intending on using it to shoot 1000 yds or competition i might as well go with the .223/5.56?

 

[Greenbug]

90 grain bullets at about 2700 FPS in the Valkyrie. 70 grain bullets in the 223/5.56 at 3000 FPS plus or minus.

Ammo/brass is way easier and cheaper to come by in the 223/5.56 than the Valkyrie.

For your intended purpose I would go with the 223/5.56 over the Valkyrie. Only advantage to the Valkyrie is on an AR platform needing to reach out to 1000 yards or more with very high BC bullets. Similar to the 22 Nosler on an AR.

Go with the 223/5.56 and use the money you saved on more ammo or a good optic!

 

[Goosebrown]

I think you'd be happy either way. Both will do it at 600. 224v is going to cost more to shoot and reload based on brass costs. You're limited to 69-70gr in 223 for AR due to mag length restrictions.

Go crazy. Get one or the other and let us know how it goes. 224v would give you boasting rights...

 

[Geardo]

This article was informative. Looks like you need to firm up your intended use. The 6.5 grendel holds more energy, but has a lot more drop past 350 yards.

To me, for a hunting gun, I would prefer more energy down range inside the envelope I am going to shoot inside of, along with cheap steal case to practice with.

The AR-15's Creedmoor? .224 Valkyrie vs. .22 Nosler and 6.5 Grendel (Modern Intermediate Calibers 025) - The Firearm Blog

 

[No_Regerts]

This article was informative. Looks like you need to firm up your intended use. The 6.5 grendel holds more energy, but has a lot more drop past 350 yards.

To me, for a hunting gun, I would prefer more energy down range inside the envelope I am going to shoot inside of, along with cheap steal case to practice with.

The AR-15's Creedmoor? .224 Valkyrie vs. .22 Nosler and 6.5 Grendel (Modern Intermediate Calibers 025) - The Firearm Blog

I agree. I dont like to punch small holes with long and slow bullets. I'm more into shock and awe.

 

[daved20319]

I think you'd be happy either way. Both will do it at 600. 224v is going to cost more to shoot and reload based on brass costs. You're limited to 69-70gr in 223 for AR due to mag length restrictions.

Go crazy. Get one or the other and let us know how it goes. 224v would give you boasting rights...

Mag limited, yes, but my .223 Wylde AR absolutely loves the IMI 77 gr. Razorcore, it's a pretty consistent sub-MOA round out of that rifle. And although Sierra specifically recommends against it, lots of folks like the SMK as a Varmint round. Haven't gotten past 100 yards with that rifle yet, but I'm pretty confident it'll be quite respectable out to 500 yards, if I can ever find a place to shoot that far.

I've looked hard at the 224V, but for my use, I'd go with a Grendel. Later.

Dave

 

[slimmer13]

I can't get behind the trend of trying to shove too much cartridge in to the 15 platform. Have some 15s to do 15 stuff have some 10s to do 10 stuff, have some bolt guns to do bolt gun stuff. If 10s are too heavy, do some arms at the gym.

 

[Mark W.]

1000 yards with a .22 cal bullet good luck on a windless day maybe. Unless you just hoping to hit the 3ft D bull. But to hit a coyote at that range your talking one hell of a shot. Even with my .243 (savage model 12 VLP DBM) I wouldn't consider that a likely shot. And its a 26" fluted barrel in a true Target rifle platform. YMMV

 

[Geardo]

I can't get behind the trend of trying to shove too much cartridge in to the 15 platform. Have some 15s to do 15 stuff have some 10s to do 10 stuff, have some bolt guns to do bolt gun stuff. If 10s are too heavy, do some arms at the gym.

Meh, I think power/pound is an important part of firearm design. Yeah an AR10 may be fine for a civilian, but sucks lugging that thing around as a soldier.

We have advanced our materials, heat treat, and gas systems a lot in the last 60 years, some of these new catridges take advantage of that.

The main issue with them is parts and ammo availability, but if .gov adopted one I would be all over it.

 

[SIG34]

Once a 224V Bolt gun comes out I'm not buying haha 6.5 does good enough for me right now

 

[zluthi]

So i know theres a specific 224 barrel but is the upper the same as the 6.8 spc upper?

 

[P7M13]

what are your thoughts on the new 224 Valkyrie and tell me all you know about it, heard about it a few days ago and im very intrigued!

IIRC, you were investigating into building a good AR for coyotes, up to 1000 yards. Don't know your knowledge or experience, so forgive me if I seem a little paternal in this post.
Valkyrie looks like an awesome round, but I'd wait to let the dust settle on it first.
Why? Money and time.
If you want to shoot Valkyrie, you are reloading, or buying rape-tastically priced ammo, probably $1.25 - $2.00 per round, or more. If you haven't reloaded before, that's an insane way to start.
I reload for two wildcats (what the Valkyrie is), and it's both very satisfying and frustrating. One of the calibers I shoot, I must make my own brass, shortening it, necking it down, turning the neck, etc. It's a hoot to shoot, but a pain in the arse to load.
There are other options.
For example, @daved20319 suggested shooting 77gr bullets out of a 223 Wylde (shoots 223 loaded ammo). A great round. It'll get you to 800 yards nicely. Price out match ammo for that. Wanna be good? You have to shoot, A LOT. That means reloading a lot, or spending a s-load on ammo.
Also, speed isn't always the panacea. Interview two dozen reloaders, and probably ALL of them will tell you the fastest bullet is usually not the most accurate.

Suggestions:

1. Build yourself an AR with good quality components centered around a 1:7 - 1:9 twist 20" barrel. There are a lot to choose from.
2. Supposedly 223 Wylde gives better accuracy. Whether you do 223 / 5.56 / Multi or Wylde doesn't matter -- while you're learning to reload, find a OTS ammo that is affordable (~30¢ per round) and shoot the crap out of it.
3. Master the art of Reloading. It is truly a labor of love and very relaxing.
4. Perfect your skills, then improve your platform.

If you really want to go AR wildcat, I'd give a serious look to that 6mm WOA that @flashpan showed you. The ballistics on that are pretty phenomenal, the 6mm projectiles give better options for sectional density and G1 coefficients, and he's reloaded for it so he has the background experience. Maybe he'd sell it to you, because there's a lot that goes into building an AR wildcat and reloading for one.

 

[P7M13]

So i know theres a specific 224 barrel but is the upper the same as the 6.8 spc upper?

6.8 SPC: different barrel and bolt head than a 223 AR15. All other components the same.
224 Valkyrie : different barrel (i.e. chamber). Same bolt head as a 6.8 SPC.
6mm WOA : different barrel, same bolt head as 6.8 SPC.

For all the above calibers based & including the 6.8 SPC, you need different magazines. Standard PMAG AR15 magazines will NOT work. Precision Reflex (PRI) makes the best ones, bar none. I have 6.8 mags from three different manufacturers, and PRI are the only ones that work flawlessly. They are $$$pendy.

 

[B5Ben]

PSA has a bolt and barrel combo for the 224V right now for $250 shipped. Mags are available since it uses the 6.8SPC mags. The rest is just standard parts. The brass would be the difficult/costly part to get started. It's tough finding good 6.8 brass at a reasonable price.

I like my 6.8SPC and 6.5CM for the intermediate to longer range distance to chase a new caliber. If I didn't have those, I would consider it. It's always nice to have more options in the same platform though.

 

[zluthi]

IIRC, you were investigating into building a good AR for coyotes, up to 1000 yards. Don't know your knowledge or experience, so forgive me if I seem a little paternal in this post.
Valkyrie looks like an awesome round, but I'd wait to let the dust settle on it first.
Why? Money and time.
If you want to shoot Valkyrie, you are reloading, or buying rape-tastically priced ammo, probably $1.25 - $2.00 per round, or more. If you haven't reloaded before, that's an insane way to start.
I reload for two wildcats (what the Valkyrie is), and it's both very satisfying and frustrating. One of the calibers I shoot, I must make my own brass, shortening it, necking it down, turning the neck, etc. It's a hoot to shoot, but a pain in the arse to load.
There are other options.
For example, @daved20319 suggested shooting 77gr bullets out of a 223 Wylde (shoots 223 loaded ammo). A great round. It'll get you to 800 yards nicely. Price out match ammo for that. Wanna be good? You have to shoot, A LOT. That means reloading a lot, or spending a s-load on ammo.
Also, speed isn't always the panacea. Interview two dozen reloaders, and probably ALL of them will tell you the fastest bullet is usually not the most accurate.

Suggestions:

1. Build yourself an AR with good quality components centered around a 1:7 - 1:9 twist 20" barrel. There are a lot to choose from.
2. Supposedly 223 Wylde gives better accuracy. Whether you do 223 / 5.56 / Multi or Wylde doesn't matter -- while you're learning to reload, find a OTS ammo that is affordable (~30¢ per round) and shoot the crap out of it.
3. Master the art of Reloading. It is truly a labor of love and very relaxing.
4. Perfect your skills, then improve your platform.

If you really want to go AR wildcat, I'd give a serious look to that 6mm WOA that @flashpan showed you. The ballistics on that are pretty phenomenal, the 6mm projectiles give better options for sectional density and G1 coefficients, and he's reloaded for it so he has the background experience. Maybe he'd sell it to you, because there's a lot that goes into building an AR wildcat and reloading for one.

Thank you for all the great info and tips, i am what you'd call a green hand at this AR stuff but have been doing a lot of research and listening to the folks on this sight, which have all been very helpful. I believe I understand what it takes to build the .224 valk AR 15 im just worried id be way over my head for my basic knowledge of the AR platform and Valkyrie. Im still not sure if ill do the .223/5.56 or .224 but i am very interested in this Valkyrie. Do you know why the 60 and 90 grains are over a dollar a shot and the 75 grain is about $.55 a shot? Also if i were to go the .224 route does an 18" barrel defeat the purpose of the Valk or do you need at least a 20" barrel?

 

[zluthi]

PSA has a bolt and barrel combo for the 224V right now for $250 shipped. Mags are available since it uses the 6.8SPC mags. The rest is just standard parts. The brass would be the difficult/costly part to get started. It's tough finding good 6.8 brass at a reasonable price.

I like my 6.8SPC and 6.5CM for the intermediate to longer range distance to chase a new caliber. If I didn't have those, I would consider it. It's always nice to have more options in the same platform though.

I saw that! They're out of stock at the moment and didn't have a price on it, its $250 for upper/barrel and shipping?

 

[P7M13]

Thank you for all the great info and tips, i am what you'd call a green hand at this AR stuff but have been doing a lot of research and listening to the folks on this sight, which have all been very helpful. I believe I understand what it takes to build the .224 valk AR 15 im just worried id be way over my head for my basic knowledge of the AR platform and Valkyrie. Im still not sure if ill do the .223/5.56 or .224 but i am very interested in this Valkyrie. Do you know why the 60 and 90 grains are over a dollar a shot and the 75 grain is about $.55 a shot? Also if i were to go the .224 route does an 18" barrel defeat the purpose of the Valk or do you need at least a 20" barrel?

I was surprised to see the American Eagle at $12 per box of 20. That's not to say it's worse than the Federal, but it may not be brass casings. Dunno.

Rule of thumb for barrel length is you get 20fps more at the muzzle per inch. On an AR, another rule of thumb is you want 7" of dwell time after the gas port -- i.e. the gas port is 7" behind the muzzle. The PSA offering is a 20" barrel with a rifle length gas system. IMO, that's a good offering.
If you have money to burn, build a standard AR to learn, and then build a 224V upper and swap calibers as you please.