Terrorized at the Canadian Border for having a CHL

[Don H]

Since CHL's are state-by-state their is no national database on them. Their is no US "clearing house" of concealed carry holders. In Oregon, a police agency cannot see if you have a CHL from another state, however it maybe logged in a Criminal History Report, as a non-criminal finger print submission. I'd have to check on that. Also, I don't know if Canada has access to the same reports as LEO's in the US do.

Exactly. The CBSA does have access to your criminal arrest history that is how they can deny you entry for a DUI you had in the 1970s.. this was opened up after 911. After 911, lots of businessmen who used to travel up here were being turned around because they had never had their DUI expunged from their records.

 

[Scott F]

To Scott, I was answering all the questions honestly and being polite, which is why the officer had his field day with me.. Many people here actually are telling me I was being too compliant and divulging too much information, putting myself into this situation.


Perhaps, next time I go to Canada, as I am wanting to do a lot of hiking in the Canadian mountains as well as see Vancouver, BC, I will either fly by plane or just roll with the punches on the land border... Maybe, I will try the Sumas border instead of the I-5 one next time. I will roll up to the border with my bags unzipped and as soon as he asks me if I have guns, I will say officer, I will go and pull over there to the search area so you can search my car, to save him the effort.

Yes officer, I do own guns, No officer, I do not have any weapons with me. Repeat as necessary.

Sumas is a MUCH better crossing, Osoyoos is even better and a beautiful drive.

 

[Burt Gummer]

All of these experiences will just help acclimate Americans toward the increasing tyranny, loss of all individual rights and lock down via the most advance police/surveillance state on the planet.

Tyranny is already here and it isn't going away. It will just expand, increase, and be more 'in your face' as time moves on ... the old America is gone.

We have no real rights and that includes the 2A. The 2A is a liberty/permission, not a right.
Anything that can be taken away is not a right, and yes, eventually it will be taken away.

All the symptoms you see daily now point to that happening. It will be taken not due to factual circumstances, but rather deception and trickery. Unfortunately, people are just too naive to understand or even notice that by each passing day Gov is growing stronger and you as the individual is being further controlled and marginalized.

Americans have been reduced to corporate controlled drones now, busily texting/Tweeting/looking down like Zombies. They don't look up long enough to see the freight train headed straight for them.

There is no use losing sleep over it. What will be will be. But the "I have rights' crowd had better learn to adjust or plan on being thrown in a hole somewhere.

... and I wonder why not all people love my comments ...

 

[EZLivin]

...What I am wondering is if the treatment I experienced was because of the particular border patrol officer I encountered or if they are all like this?...

He was probably the resident d****head for that shift. I cross a time or two every year, have for a couple of decades, and the only time I have had an issue was when I had accidentally left my passport back home in OR. But I have had to go through the lowest level searches a few times when entering back into the U.S.. Our experience is Canadians get hassled much more at border crossing when returning to Canada, and Americans get hassled much more at border crossing when returning to the U.S. Not once have I ever been asked about my CHL or what weapons I own. I've gone up for various reasons over the years - to see in-laws, to attend conferences, or just to sight-see, and so far have not experienced what you experienced. (But I will certainly post about it if it ever occurs.)

 

[4Freedom]

He was probably the resident d****head for that shift. I cross a time or two every year, have for a couple of decades, and the only time I have had an issue was when I had accidentally left my passport back home in OR. But I have had to go through the lowest level searches a few times when entering back into the U.S.. Our experience is Canadians get hassled much more at border crossing when returning to Canada, and Americans get hassled much more at border crossing when returning to the U.S. Not once have I ever been asked about my CHL or what weapons I own. I've gone up for various reasons over the years - to see in-laws, to attend conferences, or just to sight-see, and so far have not experienced what you experienced. (But I will certainly post about it if it ever occurs.)

Not only did I get grilled about my weapons, but I was accused of being a suspect of sex trafficking and he demanded to know everything about my friend, the social networking site I met him, etc, etc. He claimed people with concealed handgun licenses are very suspicious and involved in sex trafficking and other types of criminal activities and feel too comfortable carrying a gun.

I am still thinking about filing a complaint with CBSA about him seizing my phone and browsing through my text messages, which I feel he had no probable cause. The whole reason he told me to pull over was that I had a concealed handgun license and owned guns back in USA.. He claimed he had to view my text messages because having a Concealed Handgun made me a very suspicious person. Even though I know border police have much more power than normal police, I think they still need to have some type of probable cause to invade your privacy to that level.. There was no weapons stored in my text messages and if his only reason for seizing my phone and viewing all my private text messages was that I had a "Concealed Handgun License" I think he will at least need to explain his actions to his superiors. I mean these border police do have some type of protocol or have to answer to some type of rules, regulations and authority right???

Sure, any complaint may just fall on deaf ears, but I feel like I may not just be helping law-abiding American citizens, but also the Canadian government who may not be so aware at how their border guards are terrorizing their tourists who come to their country to spend money and help their economy. And, Canada should know, many more Canadians come to USA and spend their money here than vice versa.

I was pretty cool up until the point he demanded to view my text messages and seize my phone and that is when I blew my top. Also, I was watching how he got more and more aggressive as I was being polite and compliant and I didn't feel being polite and compliant was helping me. It wasn't until I got angry, demanding to talk to my embassy and to his superiors that things sped up and he stopped questioning me.

Like I said, I don't think I handled things the right way, but Officer Sidhu was nothing less than a tyrant in my eyes. Considering this is the first time I have been to Canada over 10-15 years (cannot remember when I was there last) I have no clue what I was getting into or what to expect.

I appreciate the comments here and do feel next time I go, my goal will be to be polite and focus on giving as little information as possible without causing a problem. My phone will be packed in my bag and I will tell them I have no weapons. I've also thought about divulging if I have a CHL.. Maybe now that I admitted it to the previous border guard, they have on record that I am a gun owner/CHL holder on whatever records they write, even if they didn't previously have it on their computer system. I will say I don't have a CHL and if grilled about it , I will say I thought they were referring to a Canadian permit. I'm still trying to think of the proper way to address myself to these people, should I encounter another Nazi-like border guard.

 

[EZLivin]

"The whole reason he told me to pull over was that I had a concealed handgun license and owned guns back in USA.. He claimed he had to view my text messages because having a Concealed Handgun made me a very suspicious person."

That border guard was full of s**t. Sounds like he didn't take his medicine that morning, or maybe was PO'd about something that happened earlier (and was taking it out on you). Having a CHL should not lead to that line of questioning and treatment. I guarantee Canadian Customs does not have a policy that encourages them to treat CHL holders that way.

 

[usagi]

why do you believe you have any rights in a foreign country, especially a communist one?

 

[mjbskwim]

Since CHL's are state-by-state their is no national database on them. Their is no US "clearing house" of concealed carry holders. In Oregon, a police agency cannot see if you have a CHL from another state, however it maybe logged in a Criminal History Report, as a non-criminal finger print submission. I'd have to check on that. Also, I don't know if Canada has access to the same reports as LEO's in the US do.

BUT........
If the WA leo can find out,it is tied to your DL,right? Or however ,they seem to know from reports on here. Anyway,if it is tied to your DL,then other states get it from your DL too,and anyone who can access that data base.

 

[mjbskwim]

OK 2 friends, on separate occasions went to Canada,or tried. One owned a gun shop and told them so and that he researched the laws and had no firearms. He was let go without any hassle
Next guy took the ferry from P.A. with his wife and a friend and his pistol. Ex bounty hunter,never leaves home without it.
They just told him to get back on the boat and go home.

 

[Martini_Up]

"Do you own guns?"

"No, Mr. Mapleleaf. Guns are evil and kill people"

"Welcome to Canada, aye!"

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Whistler is the only reason I ever wanted to go to Canada. I'm guessing after I turn 40 or so, I'd never have a reason to visit.

 

[shootnscoot]

After living near the border for 30 years, all I have to say is..

Canadian Army: 201 tanks

American Army: 8,325 tanks

Obama, what are you waiting for?

 

[4Freedom]

Thanks for giving me a good laugh shootnscoot! I was pretty tempted at the end of the ordeal to tell the Canadian border officers that I hope one day America conquers British Columbia and Alberta and claims it for its own.. Man, it sure would be cool to not have to worry about crossing a terrifying border just so I can do some hiking in the beautiful mountains of British Columbia and Alberta.

I'm sure if I made that comment to the Canadian border officials it would not go over well, though.. Hmm...

 

[Scott F]

"Do you own guns?"

"No, Mr. Mapleleaf. Guns are evil and kill people"

"Welcome to Canada, aye!"

If you have a CCP he will no. Not telling the truth can and will open all kinds of trouble you do not want.

Canada, especially BC is a beautiful place full of great people. I am happy to say I have made many friends there. You just have to remember it is not the 51st state.

 

[Martini_Up]

If you have a CCP he will no. Not telling the truth can and will open all kinds of trouble you do not want.

Canada, especially BC is a beautiful place full of great people. I am happy to say I have made many friends there. You just have to remember it is not the 51st state.

Name just one troubling thing that would happen to me. Just one. A request much less than the all kinds you mention.

I am under no obligation to tell the border agent ANYTHING about what I may or may not have 4oo some miles (yup, not kilometers) south. I have no firearm on my person when entering and it is none of the agent's GD business IF I OWN FIREARMS. Furthermore, should the agent have special powers to know if or if not I have a CCP, this alone does not mean that I actually OWN FIREARMS!

And I have traveled 5 continents and find great people everywhere, not just Canada, aye.

 

[Lange22250]

Name just one troubling thing that would happen to me. Just one. A request much less than the all kinds you mention.

I am under no obligation to tell the border agent ANYTHING about what I may or may not have 4oo some miles (yup, not kilometers) south. I have no firearm on my person when entering and it is none of the agent's GD business IF I OWN FIREARMS. Furthermore, should the agent have special powers to know if or if not I have a CCP, this alone does not mean that I actually OWN FIREARMS!

And I have traveled 5 continents and find great people everywhere, not just Canada, aye.

Pissing off a customs official by lying (or anything else) can get your car tossed, all electronic files searched, strip search (including cavities) and some short period of detention. There are few limits on the scope of the "investigation" at any international crossing.
I stick to only replying to pertinent questions and yes/no responses. You have no power and almost no rights at a crossing.
One of the best way to get through in a hurry, I have found, is to have a firearm with me and have the declaration in the stack of paper I have to hand them anyways. They never really look through the paper you give them so when they ask if you have a gun and you say yes, they get all excited until you point out they are holding the declaration and should have noticed already so they feel embarrassed.

Explanation of your rights at the Canadian Border - <broken link removed>

 

[Hook686]

Do you think Hispanics are terrorized at the U.S.- Mexican border, or do U.S. Border Patrol agents need to be more intensive in their work ?

 

[Hook686]

Name just one troubling thing that would happen to me. Just one. A request much less than the all kinds you mention.

How about a cavity search ?

 

[Martini_Up]

How about a cavity search ?

For what?

 

[Martini_Up]

Pissing off a customs official by lying (or anything else) can get your car tossed, all electronic files searched, strip search (including cavities) and some short period of detention. There are few limits on the scope of the "investigation" at any international crossing.
I stick to only replying to pertinent questions and yes/no responses. You have no power and almost no rights at a crossing.
One of the best way to get through in a hurry, I have found, is to have a firearm with me and have the declaration in the stack of paper I have to hand them anyways. They never really look through the paper you give them so when they ask if you have a gun and you say yes, they get all excited until you point out they are holding the declaration and should have noticed already so they feel embarrassed.

Explanation of your rights at the Canadian Border - <broken link removed>

How are they going to know if I have a firearm in my home 2 thousands miles away in another country? CCP?? I know quite a few people whom have drivers licenses but don't own cars... and that's even IF CANADA HAS ACCESS TO EACH STATE'S INFORMATION....

So again, how am I in any kind of trouble for telling a Canadian customs official at the boarder I don't own any firearms??

Moreover, how does that response piss off a customs agent?