Washington Tenth day delivery with no response from local sheriff?

[Gunbuggy]

Hey all. This is not meant to be a sh*t post or pointing fingers type thing. I'm strictly looking for information on this.

I'm in SW WA. Since 1639 I've avoided most transfers for SAR's unless I can buy the lower / frame separately from the upper / barreled action. With some firearms this is either not possible or not a viable option. So in these cases I've had to to transfers of complete SAR's, maybe 8 or 9 since 1639. I've done them at various shops around the area including a few at @Sporting Systems

Sometimes I get lucky and hear back before my tenth day so I just show up on the tenth and pick it up. Sometimes I've been unfortunate due to back logs, and every time I've had no answer on the tenth day, the shop (including sporting systems, rw pawn, and tropics) told me I had to wait until they heard back from sheriff. Ok no biggie. The whole thing is unconstitutional as it is but it's the cards im dealt.


Well this week I did a transfer at a shop in a different county up north and the ffl said "ok see you in ten days" and I said well that's if you hear something back! And he said no, unless they put a hold on it or a denial I can legally give it to you in ten business days wether it's approved or unanswered. I said well that's not what my other ffls have said.

The shop owner told me that it's each ffls choice on if they release it without hearing back or not, but law says on tenth biz day they can release long as no denial or delay or 30 day hold.

Is this true? If so, why has a pro 2a shop that continually fights for our constitutional rights made me wait until I heard back from the sheriff. Knowing I'm an active cpl holder, they should have felt just fine releasing to me on the tenth business day.

If it's not true, where in the law does it state that we have to wait for an approval before picking up on the 10th biz day for SAR's?


Thanks!

Read More

 

[Alexx1401]

Yes the FFL "can" let the gun walk after the 10. Some will, many will not. Many of those who will it depends on the customer. Ever since the Feds told WA they were done, no more instant for hand guns we have had our favorite shop let us walk with one twice. We have been shopping there since they opened their doors though so that may make a difference. Bottom line MANY get real over the top angry at FFL's over this. They are angry at the wrong person. The people who did this are WA gun owners who sit on their hands and allow this to happen. Many of them have no clue some new law went in for years after until it effects them. So all you can do it either wait, or ask the FFL BEFORE money changes hands, how they handle it.

 

[Gunbuggy]

Yes the FFL "can" let the gun walk after the 10. Some will, many will not. Many of those who will it depends on the customer. Ever since the Feds told WA they were done, no more instant for hand guns we have had our favorite shop let us walk with one twice. We have been shopping there since they opened their doors though so that may make a difference. Bottom line MANY get real over the top angry at FFL's over this. They are angry at the wrong person. The people who did this are WA gun owners who sit on their hands and allow this to happen. Many of them have no clue some new law went in for years after until it effects them. So all you can do it either wait, or ask the FFL BEFORE money changes hands, how they handle it.

You're right to an extent yes and I fully agree but it would be nice to see an ffl down here deliver if the law says it's fine, instead of making the personal choice not to. But when it's a customer you know, who's been patronizing your business for a long long time, it shouldn't even be a question.

I didn't even know this was an option until a random ffl I'd never been to told me. I had basically all of the 1639 classified items I'd ever need before the crappy law passed. So I didn't really research it much. All I did was write all my representatives and tell them that it was unconstitutional and voted no.

 

[User 1234]

There is a thread on WaGuns with a database of which FFL dealers in WA deliver a gun on day 11 if no agency response is received. Give those dealers your business.

 

[Gunbuggy]

There is a thread on WaGuns with a database of which FFL dealers in WA deliver a gun on day 11 if no agency response is received. Give those dealers your business.

If I end up doing another 1639 I definitely will. Sounds like those guys deserve our business more than most

 

[drstrangelove]

I've got a Sig P210 moving into the 15th business day on BRC now. I'm getting pissed off. Local pawn FFL did the transfer. Not cool.

 

[Gunbuggy]

I've got a Sig P210 moving into the 15th business day on BRC now. I'm getting pissed off. Tropics did the transfer. Not cool.

Frustrating. I use tropics often. Like for literally all of my orders. They're really great people, but them being a pawn shop first and an ffl second, I understand their unwillingness to release until an approval. They're not as privy to the laws as they should be for being a dealer. So that's why I only order frames, bolt guns, shotguns and lever guns to them

 

[Alexx1401]

You're right to an extent yes and I fully agree but it would be nice to see an ffl down here deliver if the law says it's fine, instead of making the personal choice not to. But when it's a customer you know, who's been patronizing your business for a long long time, it shouldn't even be a question.

I didn't even know this was an option until a random ffl I'd never been to told me. I had basically all of the 1639 classified items I'd ever need before the crappy law passed. So I didn't really research it much. All I did was write all my representatives and tell them that it was unconstitutional and voted no.

There is what should be, and there is the world we sadly have to live in. The joke of an AG we have in this state is VERY anti gun. Its easy to say the FFL should just let the gun walk but we are not the ones putting our business on the line, the FFL is. The FFL has no way to know for sure the buyer has not recently done something stupid. If the shop lets the person take the gun, later the state says hold up, and the person does something with that gun? AG would be wetting his little pants to go after the shop. So most shops just will not risk it. Can't say I blame them. Again gun owners did this to themselves.

 

[Sporting Systems]

For all 90,000 citizens that have taken our free 1639 class, you're welcome. That's about $4,500,000 in class fees we saved Washington citizens. Nearly every FFL in the state uses our free class.

For those that support our federal lawsuit over 1639, that's in federal court right now, thank you.

For every who appreciates the 4-6 weeks that I take off each legislative sessions to combat all the new laws they're trying to pass. Thank you for your support.

Yes, we will fight for your constitutional rights everyday. In the legislature, in the courts, and in every gun shop and gun range around that will help us share the intel citizens needs to fight back.

Ah yes, 10 days, we used to. Then as our volume grew, we ran into issues with clients. Late denials, and we have to, or LE has to recover the firearm. Only to find the client has electro penned the firearm, and wants a refund for a damaged firearm. Or this week, the couple, the wife always bought the firearms. It was weird, because he always came in for days and oogled the product and put a deposit on it. Later in the week, his wife would return solo and do paperwork. This time, they returned together, because of his behavior we asked if he would mind doing the background check. After 30 minutes of negotiating, he agreed, at 13 days his denial comes back. Turns out, he's a felon from another state. Also this week, the woman, with a freshly issued CPL in hand that was a denied at 12 days..30 minutes later we get a call from the US Marshal Service...she's wanted for attempted murder, unlawful discharge of a weapon, armed robbery, eluding and a host of other charges, we could have released her SAR but waited a few days. This list goes on of denials that have come late and the issues arising out of those denials.

After a few years in business, a number of odd issues, we came to the conclusion that there is a certain percentage of the population that will lie to us, lie on the federal forms, and put us in jeopardy trying to obtain a firearm with false information. Our 10 day policy wasn't derived to punish the 99% of honest, lawful buyers. Its there to protect us from the 1% that are intent on doing bad things, and putting our business and our very lives in jeopardy. The only exception at this point, if you're known to us, have a history of approved transactions, and are courteous to staff, we will release those every time at 10 business days.

When I was being deposed by the AG's office for the 1639 lawsuit, I spent 2 days in Seattle. While I was gone, my shop was visited by nearly every state regulatory agency that we deal with. Never been visited in 7 years, while I'm gone, visited by everyone. Coincidence? Not so, reported to me by a now former AG investigator. We have a target on our backs, because we have been an effective advocate for your 2A rights, and will continue to be. They do not like us, and they want us gone, so we have to watch our tails in everything we do. We set up the www.wacivilrights.org to bring more partners into the fight, to remove the business name from the fight, and we funded it ourselves. We educate and reach 90,000 citizens with that organization, and I found 2 amazing partners in sharing the load in that organization (none in the gun business either). The NRA has a 15,000 member mailing list in WA, ours is 100,000. We are effective and growing our base, yet do not ask for a single penny. Since 1639 was introduced, we have spent over 6 months of my time (off of work to fight these laws), we have spent over $200,000 out of our own pocket. We have raised and donated $150,000 to the Second Amendment foundation, to fight elsewhere around the country.

When we ask other FFLs to help, to organize, to broadcast the message and educate their customers....most do absolutely nothing, by most, over 95%. Yet we still fight. Alone some days, with a few other FFLs that we've recruited to the fight with us. Some FFLS, will actively hate on us, we're too noisy, to pushy, too whatever. Too effective, but they hate on us anyways. We're trying to organize the WA gun industry, but thats like herding cats in thunderstorm. We hope to grow the industry support, as the state D party continues to try and strip and limit you of nearly every firearm right you currently have.

I'm a gun enthusiast, hunter, collector, more than anyone can appreciate. I understand its my gun and I want it now! I too, am impatient waiting on an item I purchased but have to wait for. For your 2A rights, I will stand with you every day, I want you to enjoy them. I want our grandkids to enjoy them too, so we fight. So yeah, give your business to the folks that release a firearm at 10 business days, that's a sound short term plan. When they go away, because the market is so badly damaged by the restrictions, thank them for fighting for you. Choose 10 day deliver, over an advocate that gives non stop and asks for nothing in return. I'm passionate on these issues, I'm empathetic to those whom have to a few extra days. Common sense, experience, and the target on my back tell me I've made the right choice. No one yet has presented me a solid argument to the contrary.

Off my soap now. Be angry, be flippant, be supportive. This was a choice we had to make, and not one we take lightly.


PS: The 10 business day thing goes away real soon...because WSP will be running ALL firearm checks by end of next year 2023. WSP is only 2 years behind, and the program has major errors in it. I testified on that for 2 hours in November 2020, because no other FFL read the 152 page report issued to the Senate Law and Justice committee, I tore it apart because of the flaws, delays and lack of redress for those denied. I even had Democratic Senators calling me and asking how they can fix it...they even realized the system is broken, before it's even implemented.

 

[Gunbuggy]

For all 90,000 citizens that have taken our free 1639 class, you're welcome. That's about $4,500,000 in class fees we saved Washington citizens. Nearly every FFL in the state uses our free class.

For those that support our federal lawsuit over 1639, that's in federal court right now, thank you.

For every who appreciates the 4-6 weeks that I take off each legislative sessions to combat all the new laws they're trying to pass. Thank you for your support.

Yes, we will fight for your constitutional rights everyday. In the legislature, in the courts, and in every gun shop and gun range around that will help us share the intel citizens needs to fight back.

Ah yes, 10 days, we used to. Then as our volume grew, we ran into issues with clients. Late denials, and we have to, or LE has to recover the firearm. Only to find the client has electro penned the firearm, and wants a refund for a damaged firearm. Or this week, the couple, the wife always bought the firearms. It was weird, because he always came in for days and oogled the product and put a deposit on it. Later in the week, his wife would return solo and do paperwork. This time, they returned together, because of his behavior we asked if he would mind doing the background check. After 30 minutes of negotiating, he agreed, at 13 days his denial comes back. Turns out, he's a felon from another state. Also this week, the woman, with a freshly issued CPL in hand that was a denied at 12 days..30 minutes later we get a call from the US Marshal Service...she's wanted for attempted murder, unlawful discharge of a weapon, armed robbery, eluding and a host of other charges, we could have released her SAR but waited a few days. This list goes on of denials that have come late and the issues arising out of those denials.

After a few years in business, a number of odd issues, we came to the conclusion that there is a certain percentage of the population that will lie to us, lie on the federal forms, and put us in jeopardy trying to obtain a firearm with false information. Our 10 day policy wasn't derived to punish the 99% of honest, lawful buyers. Its there to protect us from the 1% that are intent on doing bad things, and putting our business and our very lives in jeopardy. The only exception at this point, if you're known to us, have a history of approved transactions, and are courteous to staff, we will release those every time at 10 business days.

When I was being deposed by the AG's office for the 1639 lawsuit, I spent 2 days in Seattle. While I was gone, my shop was visited by nearly every state regulatory agency that we deal with. Never been visited in 7 years, while I'm gone, visited by everyone. Coincidence? Not so, reported to me by a now former AG investigator. We have a target on our backs, because we have been an effective advocate for your 2A rights, and will continue to be. They do not like us, and they want us gone, so we have to watch our tails in everything we do. We set up the www.wacivilrights.org to bring more partners into the fight, to remove the business name from the fight, and we funded it ourselves. We educate and reach 90,000 citizens with that organization, and I found 2 amazing partners in sharing the load in that organization (none in the gun business either). The NRA has a 15,000 member mailing list in WA, ours is 100,000. We are effective and growing our base, yet do not ask for a single penny. Since 1639 was introduced, we have spent over 6 months of my time (off of work to fight these laws), we have spent over $200,000 out of our own pocket. We have raised and donated $150,000 to the Second Amendment foundation, to fight elsewhere around the country.

When we ask other FFLs to help, to organize, to broadcast the message and educate their customers....most do absolutely nothing, by most, over 95%. Yet we still fight. Alone some days, with a few other FFLs that we've recruited to the fight with us. Some FFLS, will actively hate on us, we're too noisy, to pushy, too whatever. Too effective, but they hate on us anyways. We're trying to organize the WA gun industry, but thats like herding cats in thunderstorm. We hope to grow the industry support, as the state D party continues to try and strip and limit you of nearly every firearm right you currently have.

I'm a gun enthusiast, hunter, collector, more than anyone can appreciate. I understand its my gun and I want it now! I too, am impatient waiting on an item I purchased but have to wait for. For your 2A rights, I will stand with you every day, I want you to enjoy them. I want our grandkids to enjoy them too, so we fight. So yeah, give your business to the folks that release a firearm at 10 business days, that's a sound short term plan. When they go away, because the market is so badly damaged by the restrictions, thank them for fighting for you. Choose 10 day deliver, over an advocate that gives non stop and asks for nothing in return. I'm passionate on these issues, I'm empathetic to those whom have to a few extra days. Common sense, experience, and the target on my back tell me I've made the right choice. No one yet has presented me a solid argument to the contrary.

Off my soap now. Be angry, be flippant, be supportive. This was a choice we had to make, and not one we take lightly.


PS: The 10 business day thing goes away real soon...because WSP will be running ALL firearm checks by end of next year 2023. WSP is only 2 years behind, and the program has major errors in it. I testified on that for 2 hours in November 2020, because no other FFL read the 152 page report issued to the Senate Law and Justice committee, I tore it apart because of the flaws, delays and lack of redress for those denied. I even had Democratic Senators calling me and asking how they can fix it...they even realized the system is broken, before it's even implemented.

Great response! That's why I tagged you I was hoping to hear from the horses mouth so to speak. Very thankful for your fight, which is why I mentioned my awareness of your endless fight for our rights in my post.

Speaking on the 10 day thing changing, is that for better or worse? Is it going to be a lot longer than ten days now or is wsp finally establishing a system that will help us get sooner responses? I read something a while back about them having until 2022 to establish a system. What does this mean for us in 2022

 

[Sporting Systems]

Great response! That's why I tagged you I was hoping to hear from the horses mouth so to speak. Very thankful for your fight, which is why I mentioned my awareness of your endless fight for our rights in my post.

Speaking on the 10 day thing changing, is that for better or worse? Is it going to be a lot longer than ten days now or is wsp finally establishing a system that will help us get sooner responses? I read something a while back about them having until 2022 to establish a system. What does this mean for us in 2022

For the worse. Nothing happens in 2022. Right now, they expect a beta rollout for late 2023 and full implementation July 2024. The program design is still seriously flawed. missing critical federal components and they've done nothing to connect with the WA dealers to figure out how to deliver the most efficient and effective program for Washington citizens.

 

[Gunbuggy]

For the worse. Nothing happens in 2022. Right now, they expect a beta rollout for late 2023 and full implementation July 2024. The program design is still seriously flawed. missing critical federal components and they've done nothing to connect with the WA dealers to figure out how to deliver the most efficient and effective program for Washington citizens.

Great. This state used to be awesome. And now after 594 it just started rapidly going down hill. Then 1639 "oh we don't want to take your "assault weapons" we just want them more regulated. We're not here to take them. Now 2 years later "we're banning them"


I'd really love to see the stats on the rates of murders/shootings/ gun crimes before and after 1639.

Seems like it's a lesser charge to be a "disadvantaged" felon in possession of a handgun in the state of Washington than it is if one of us got caught selling a SAR outside of an ffl.

 

[Alexx1401]

For all 90,000 citizens that have taken our free 1639 class, you're welcome. That's about $4,500,000 in class fees we saved Washington citizens. Nearly every FFL in the state uses our free class.

For those that support our federal lawsuit over 1639, that's in federal court right now, thank you.

For every who appreciates the 4-6 weeks that I take off each legislative sessions to combat all the new laws they're trying to pass. Thank you for your support.

Yes, we will fight for your constitutional rights everyday. In the legislature, in the courts, and in every gun shop and gun range around that will help us share the intel citizens needs to fight back.

Ah yes, 10 days, we used to. Then as our volume grew, we ran into issues with clients. Late denials, and we have to, or LE has to recover the firearm. Only to find the client has electro penned the firearm, and wants a refund for a damaged firearm. Or this week, the couple, the wife always bought the firearms. It was weird, because he always came in for days and oogled the product and put a deposit on it. Later in the week, his wife would return solo and do paperwork. This time, they returned together, because of his behavior we asked if he would mind doing the background check. After 30 minutes of negotiating, he agreed, at 13 days his denial comes back. Turns out, he's a felon from another state. Also this week, the woman, with a freshly issued CPL in hand that was a denied at 12 days..30 minutes later we get a call from the US Marshal Service...she's wanted for attempted murder, unlawful discharge of a weapon, armed robbery, eluding and a host of other charges, we could have released her SAR but waited a few days. This list goes on of denials that have come late and the issues arising out of those denials.

After a few years in business, a number of odd issues, we came to the conclusion that there is a certain percentage of the population that will lie to us, lie on the federal forms, and put us in jeopardy trying to obtain a firearm with false information. Our 10 day policy wasn't derived to punish the 99% of honest, lawful buyers. Its there to protect us from the 1% that are intent on doing bad things, and putting our business and our very lives in jeopardy. The only exception at this point, if you're known to us, have a history of approved transactions, and are courteous to staff, we will release those every time at 10 business days.

When I was being deposed by the AG's office for the 1639 lawsuit, I spent 2 days in Seattle. While I was gone, my shop was visited by nearly every state regulatory agency that we deal with. Never been visited in 7 years, while I'm gone, visited by everyone. Coincidence? Not so, reported to me by a now former AG investigator. We have a target on our backs, because we have been an effective advocate for your 2A rights, and will continue to be. They do not like us, and they want us gone, so we have to watch our tails in everything we do. We set up the www.wacivilrights.org to bring more partners into the fight, to remove the business name from the fight, and we funded it ourselves. We educate and reach 90,000 citizens with that organization, and I found 2 amazing partners in sharing the load in that organization (none in the gun business either). The NRA has a 15,000 member mailing list in WA, ours is 100,000. We are effective and growing our base, yet do not ask for a single penny. Since 1639 was introduced, we have spent over 6 months of my time (off of work to fight these laws), we have spent over $200,000 out of our own pocket. We have raised and donated $150,000 to the Second Amendment foundation, to fight elsewhere around the country.

When we ask other FFLs to help, to organize, to broadcast the message and educate their customers....most do absolutely nothing, by most, over 95%. Yet we still fight. Alone some days, with a few other FFLs that we've recruited to the fight with us. Some FFLS, will actively hate on us, we're too noisy, to pushy, too whatever. Too effective, but they hate on us anyways. We're trying to organize the WA gun industry, but thats like herding cats in thunderstorm. We hope to grow the industry support, as the state D party continues to try and strip and limit you of nearly every firearm right you currently have.

I'm a gun enthusiast, hunter, collector, more than anyone can appreciate. I understand its my gun and I want it now! I too, am impatient waiting on an item I purchased but have to wait for. For your 2A rights, I will stand with you every day, I want you to enjoy them. I want our grandkids to enjoy them too, so we fight. So yeah, give your business to the folks that release a firearm at 10 business days, that's a sound short term plan. When they go away, because the market is so badly damaged by the restrictions, thank them for fighting for you. Choose 10 day deliver, over an advocate that gives non stop and asks for nothing in return. I'm passionate on these issues, I'm empathetic to those whom have to a few extra days. Common sense, experience, and the target on my back tell me I've made the right choice. No one yet has presented me a solid argument to the contrary.

Off my soap now. Be angry, be flippant, be supportive. This was a choice we had to make, and not one we take lightly.


PS: The 10 business day thing goes away real soon...because WSP will be running ALL firearm checks by end of next year 2023. WSP is only 2 years behind, and the program has major errors in it. I testified on that for 2 hours in November 2020, because no other FFL read the 152 page report issued to the Senate Law and Justice committee, I tore it apart because of the flaws, delays and lack of redress for those denied. I even had Democratic Senators calling me and asking how they can fix it...they even realized the system is broken, before it's even implemented.

Not that it means much in the grand scheme but, THANK YOU!

 

[drstrangelove]

Just got the proceed call at 15 business days. May need to rethink doing my business with an FFL that won't release at 10d.

 

[User 1234]

Just got the proceed call at 15 business days. May need to rethink doing my business with an FFL that won't release at 10d.

When you can show dozens of prior approvals and a current CPL, so that the FFL doesn't need to wonder about the buyer, they should let it go at 10 days. I can understand why some FFLs are reluctant for buyers who they don't know; or who have given clues that raise doubts.

 

[arakboss]

Hey all. This is not meant to be a sh*t post or pointing fingers type thing. I'm strictly looking for information on this.

I'm in SW WA. Since 1639 I've avoided most transfers for SAR's unless I can buy the lower / frame separately from the upper / barreled action. With some firearms this is either not possible or not a viable option. So in these cases I've had to to transfers of complete SAR's, maybe 8 or 9 since 1639. I've done them at various shops around the area including a few at @Sporting Systems

Sometimes I get lucky and hear back before my tenth day so I just show up on the tenth and pick it up. Sometimes I've been unfortunate due to back logs, and every time I've had no answer on the tenth day, the shop (including sporting systems, rw pawn, and tropics) told me I had to wait until they heard back from sheriff. Ok no biggie. The whole thing is unconstitutional as it is but it's the cards im dealt.


Well this week I did a transfer at a shop in a different county up north and the ffl said "ok see you in ten days" and I said well that's if you hear something back! And he said no, unless they put a hold on it or a denial I can legally give it to you in ten business days wether it's approved or unanswered. I said well that's not what my other ffls have said.

The shop owner told me that it's each ffls choice on if they release it without hearing back or not, but law says on tenth biz day they can release long as no denial or delay or 30 day hold.

Is this true? If so, why has a pro 2a shop that continually fights for our constitutional rights made me wait until I heard back from the sheriff. Knowing I'm an active cpl holder, they should have felt just fine releasing to me on the tenth business day.

If it's not true, where in the law does it state that we have to wait for an approval before picking up on the 10th biz day for SAR's?


Thanks!

This shop up North deserves more business.

 

[drstrangelove]

When you can show dozens of prior approvals and a current CPL, so that the FFL doesn't need to wonder about the buyer, they should let it go at 10 days. I can understand why some FFLs are reluctant for buyers who they don't know; or who have given clues that raise doubts.

I reminded Tropics of that very thing today, and that is when they called the sheriff for the second time. Either way, Les at CCG is $2 cheaper and follows the 10d max rule (if no "hold" from sheriffs office). I'd rather give him the business.

 

[Gunbuggy]

I reminded Tropics of that very thing today, and that is when they called the sheriff for the second time. Either way, Les at CCG is $2 cheaper and follows the 10d max rule (if no "hold" from sheriffs office). I'd rather give him the business.

Who's CCG? Might want to give them my biz

 

[ma96782]

IIRC....
The WA Law did NOT REQUIRE the release. It simply made it POSSIBLE for the FFL to release after the required period and non-response from the authorities.

So then......
The FFL may for whatever reason decide that it's NOT a good idea to release without the Govt. go ahead. Yeah.....it's still his business. Thinking maybe.....LIABILITY might/maybe attach. IF......later on, "something bad were to happen".

Ask a lawyer about stuff like that.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....think about how much it still costs to defend a manufacturer, business or even a person.....even though this is in effect?

S.397 - Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act

Not to mention that some Lawers (and Judges) just want/like to PLAY/TEST their cases (and hope for a possible settlement or award). Yeah.....it's about the MONEY. KaChing!

 

[drstrangelove]

Who's CCG? Might want to give them my biz

Clark County Gunsmithing. Les is the owner. Very nice guy.