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Taurus Judges?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by CounterOfBeans, May 21, 2010.

  1. CounterOfBeans

    CounterOfBeans northwest Active Member

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    I have a friend who's interested in getting a close defense pocket pistol. I mentioned to him that he might look at the Taurus Judge, Public Defender, etc. line of revolvers which fire .410 shells. Does anyone have personal experience with these guns to know whether they are a thumbs up or down, or know much about what the field reports are? Thanks.
     
  2. yskippy

    yskippy Tigard Life Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I don't think you could consider the Judge to be a "pocket" pistol...it's frickin' huge...has to be to accommodate a cylinder that can take 410 shells.
     
  3. CounterOfBeans

    CounterOfBeans northwest Active Member

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    I told him the same thing; that a Judge revolver isn't exactly small enough to stuff in your pocket, but he seemed interested/ intrigued all the same. I just couldn't offer him any good info on what the market had to say about them for close quarters (home) self-defense effectiveness.
     
  4. ShelbyT

    ShelbyT BeaverTOWN New Member

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  5. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    http://www.theboxotruth.com/


    They do penetration testing of various rifle, handgun, and shotgun rounds.

    The .410 shotshell and buckshot rounds are totally inadequate for self-defense. Even the .410 slug is ballistically inferior to a 9mm round. If you are going to rely on a Judge for protection you should load it with .45 Colt JHP rounds. Or better yet, skip the Judge entirely and buy a decent .357 pistol that is smaller, lighter, holds 6 rounds instead of 5, and can use speedloaders. IMHO the Judge is a gimmick, a solution in search of a problem.
     
  6. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    My father has one and it is a great option for him. Inside a house, easy to use and he does not have to aim. The 000 buck has 4 pellets inside. It is a large gun. Even the public defender is the size of a 357. A lot of people do not like it. same goes for any other firearm. I think that it is a good close up firearm that will put some lead down range. You do not have to be the best marksman to make it work. house, car, close range. fine..
     
  7. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    At 3:00 am I like the fact that if the bg is in the hallway , he gets hit with something ! Accuracy ? finesse ? no big bang ? intimidating ? you betcha ! Different tools for different jobs , you keep whatever helps you sleep in the bedside table , I'll be the judge of what I trust .
     
  8. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    hoping some will show up here for sale, so far I haven't seen one (doesn't mean it hasn't happend, just that I missed them). Right now I keep an 18½" barrel Win 1300 in the house and motorhome. Think the Judge with the new Win .410 personal defense round would be just as effective in close quarters
     
  9. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Please, do some serious research on .410 ballistics before choosing to rely on one for personal defense.

    Winchester is marketing their .410 "personal defense" round for one reason only, and that is to sell ammo to people who bought Taurus Judges.

    The standard slug load for the .410 3" moves a 90 gr slug at about 1700fps from a handgun. Its pretty much a .380 on steroids, and thats about as good as its ever going to get for a .410

    The "defense disk" load may sound cool but it consists of nothing more than 3 flattened 60-70 grain projectiles surrounded by 12 BB's moving at approx 1200 fps from a short barrel.

    The penetration and muzzle energy just isnt there for reliable performance on a human assailant. Yes is spreads out pretty nicely at close range, but the hits you are going to be able to get will probably not stop a determined attacker.

    If I am going to accept puny, .380-level ballistics in a personal defense weapon...then it will be from a small, lightweight and concealable semi-auto. Or if I am going to accept a heavy, bulky revolver that cant be concealed and only gives me 5 shots with a slow reload...I want some .357, .44mag or 45 Colt ballistics in exchange for that compromise.

    The Judge to me seems like the worst of both worlds. At best, it might have some utility as a "trail gun" than can transition from snakes and small game to large game or defense by switching over from .410 to .45 Colt....but for home or car defense I would much prefer a tried-and-true .357 or .38+p revolver loaded with JHP's.
     
  10. seagoing

    seagoing Seattle Member

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    My friend has a Judge.
    I have shot it.
    No, it doesn't have the best ballistics specs, but at home defense distances of 10 feet or so I don't EVER EVER want to be on the receiving end.
    And you still have 4 more in the cylinder...
     
  11. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt EVER EVER want to be on the receiving end of a .410 either. Or even a .22 for that matter.

    That doesnt change the fact that The Judge is a grossly inefficient firearm in terms of its ballistics, firepower, and size.

    For home defense, any decent 38+p or .357 revolver or 9mm thru .45 semi-auto pistol would be a far, far better choice.

    I think it is flat-out irresponsible of Taurus to represent to new shooters that the .410 round is a viable choice for home defense in the first place. And I dont think its a coincidence that S&W and Ruger havent bothered trying to produce their own .410/.45 revolvers either.
     
  12. seagoing

    seagoing Seattle Member

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    True, the Judge is somewhat of a gimmick.
    And I wish they could have made it smoothbore and .410-only.

    This thing isn't meant to defend against a band of people who know you, hate you, and are determined to kill you.

    But I still say that if you hit the typical burglar with 3 of these in the torso, you win.
    If the owner has practiced with it, and is comfortable with it, then half the battle is already won.

    After all that, I do admit that I'd rather have a pistol-grip 12 gauge.
     
  13. Kanewpadle

    Kanewpadle Washington Member

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    The Judge is a gimmick. A solution to a none existant problem. And they are junk.

    There is no reason in the world to SETTLE for a Judge when you can choose from many other guns that would serve you much better.
     
  14. Trick

    Trick St Helens Active Member

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    Why do you say they are junk? I don't own one, nor have I fired one, but I have held a few. They "feel" reasonably built to me. Have there been recalls?

    I'm in the camp that if you want one, buy it and have some fun with it. Worst things you could spend your money on IMHO.
     
  15. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    I own one , I've fired a couple , and it seems to be exactly what I expected . Finesse ? no
    And there will always be a bigger , better , caliber , more efficient , more intimidating , better ballistics , etc than the gun that you have - regardless of the latest gun "expert " telling you that this is junk and that is cruddy , if you have spent your hard earned money and are happy with the result , why do some people think it is their moral imperative to put it down ? I would not want to run into someone armed with a judge loaded with practically any load and have them discharge it in my direction . They are a hoot to shoot , make lots of little holes , or a few big ones , and I like it . I also own several other calibers and I'm sure that there are some people that don't like each one of them . Your opinion is just that - does it make your candle burn brighter when you blow out someone elses ?
     
  16. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    Well you certainly will have to give Taurus credit for the sucess they have experienced with the Judge. Its a winner for them and making them a ton of money.:thumbup:

    Its more or less a novelty weapon in my personal opinion. Shoot it a few times and it goes into the safe for a few years only to be pulled out when you want to impress friends and family

    I have several of that type of weapon in my safe and they do take up lots of space.

    But hey, its fun to have new guns, to buy the latest and greatest, why not buy one just for fun.

    For home defense maybe just buy an old Glock that you can toss in the toolbox if you choose and not have to worry about it going bang every time you need it when things go bump in the night.
     
  17. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    If you own and enjoy a Judge, then more power to you. I'm sure the gun itself is reliable and well made. And if a person has a need or a desire for a weapon that can fire both .45 Colt and .410 shells, then the Judge is probably a good choice for that person.

    My only point is that the .410 round is totally inadequate for self defense and IMHO it is irresponsible to new gun owners to claim otherwise.
     
  18. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    But on the other hand the 45 LC loaded with the right ammo is one heck of a defensive man stopper. I too don't care for the 410 but love the 45 LC and have that in Ruger format.
     
  19. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    Opinions - not the only thing everyone has at least one of . Opinions are just that - not statements of undeniable fact . Just ask anyone that has ever been shot by a .410 if they enjoyed the experience and I doubt that you'll have much success finding any. If you don't like the weapon or the caliber - don't buy one .I've got several 12 gauge shotguns that are undeniably more effective for self defense , can't seem to fit them into my nightstand drawer though . Whatever helps you sleep thru the night .
     
  20. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not a person "enjoys the experience" of being shot with a particular caliber...has nothing to do with whether or not that caliber is an effective choice for self-defense.

    You are correct that its impossible to fit a 12 ga shotgun into the nightstand drawer.

    It is possible, however, to fit any number of handguns into the nightstand drawer...that shoot calibers that are far more effective for self defense than the .410 round.

    For that matter, you could load .45 Colt JHP rounds into The Judge and have a perfectly suitable self defense revolver, albiet a rather large and bulky one.