Talk me out of liquidating my IRA and buying preps

[Nwcid]

leadcounsel, if you're going to do precious metals then do it in a way where you physically hold the asset. I would not do a fund based on these metals.

Peter

Strong point. Anything written on paper if it is $1 bill or $10,000 stock note is only worth what the paper you hold in your hand is worth without something to back it up. Number on paper are all about trust and backing. Without both they are worthless unless there is a used paper shortage.

 

[katsnatchfever]

"Americans are going to have to adjust. It will be painful."

Not possible, and NO were are not a resilient people. Where do people get this stuff? From gov propaganda? Nationalism, false pride?

Americans have become the weakest of the weak. When denied access to their pharm drugs, many people will simply go into a homicidal rage or kill themselves. Let's face it, Americans USED to be a very resilient people. Hard working. Willing to sacrifice something in the here and now in order to protect the future. Not any more. The John Wayne types have been replaced by the Bam Margeras. Me, me, me, now, now, now.

Now, through many years of careful psychological manipulation, political correctness, environmental factors (poisons in our food, water, air), the boob tube, etc, etc; we are about as weak and delusional as a society can get. That is what the Oligarchs wanted and that is what they achieved. (Research how top psychologists and masters of manipulation such as Edward Bernais were used to change the American system of values).

Calm down. A lot of Americans are aware of how bad things are or these conversations wouldn't be happening. I wasn't trying to convince anyone that things are rosy. You come across as an emotional mess, and no amount of gold and silver/ vietnam field experience is going to get you through tough times if you lose it just reading someone's opinion on a forum. Can you run 5 miles today without stopping? Or, have you fooled yourself into thinking that liqiudating small IRA accounts for gold and food stock will carry you through any possible scenario?
Most of us have seen regional economic/ currency collapse in our lifetime. The Asian currency crisis of 1997; do you know anything about it?

The OP needs to leave his retirement account alone and stay away from emotional decisions (Do you even remember his question?). You are steering him in the wrong direction. He can properly prep without his IRA money (He IS a lawyer, probably has a decent income), but you gave no attempt to help him find the way there; instead it looks like you constantly have a fiat currency rant chambered for anybody that cares to listen.

Lead Council- Focus on your areas that you admit are weak. People that can work with their hands and fix/ create things will always be worth something, whether it's barter/ trade or fiat economy. You can stop contributing to your IRA, and start accumulating gold if you want, but you will be buying at extremely high prices. The time to roll your whole portfolio into precious metals passed a long time ago. Prepping is about balance. You need a lot of different elements to make it through a true TEOTWAWKI scenario. Gold isn't going to solve all your problems. If you like to read check out "Shop Class as Soul Craft". The author got tired of his desk job and started his own business repairing old motorcycles, with very little experience. Perhaps it will inspire you to learn to really work with your hands, and you will realize that with the right preps it is these skills that will carry you long term. Good luck.

 

[Solomon]

This thread went in a way different direction over at GlockTalk.

 

[good2eat]

My suggest is, at the very least, get out of the market unless you have the discipline and ability to monitor it nearly all the time and have the ability to get out of your positions at a moment's notice. By that I mean have electronic access to sell - do not count on being able to get through to your "broker" if the market takes a big dump. You could enter stop loss orders as a precautionary measure as well.

I'm in the "collapse is a mathematical certainty" camp - though I have NO idea of the timing. It's my expectation things will be OK, until they are not. The biggest question in my mind is at what point does the market no longer accept the "full faith and credit of the U.S" as sufficient security to continue to prop up the dollar and invest in US debt. And, just how much money has the FED made up out of thin air the last 4 years (and continue to add to) - how does one real back in multiple trillions of dollars, when that money has been spent by the US Govt, without creating significant negative consequences?

One near term advantage is the mess in which the EU finds itself. However, as the world continues to work toward the use of other currencies for oil, etc. trade the greater the risk of the US dollar crumbling.

One other concern I would have is IRA are not immediately liquid - it will take time to get your money should a downward spiral pick up steam. Personally, my retirement accounts are all in cash - I have no confidence in the markets and am not willing to take what I consider to be unacceptable risk levels.

 

[Grunwald]

If I take the money out prematurely, I believe I'll pay INCOME tax on the increase in value (so 30% on the profits, not the principle) and a 10% penalty on the profits (not the principle).

I've been thinking as an alternative to taking the money out, and a hit, to invest in precious metal EFTs that track silver and gold. It would effectively be doing the same thing. If for instance gold triples in value, I would make the profit in that manner. Still the issue with having the funds IN the IRA still, but that gives me some ability to earn in a disaster...

Absolutely wrong unless you are talking about a Roth IRA.
if it is a regular IRA, which was funded with before tax money then you will pay income tax on the full amount.
Roth gets a bit more complicated.
If you have a decent amount in the account, go and see a tax accountant to see what the different options are. Might cost you a couple of hundred bucks, but it'x better than losing thousands.
Heck, given a choice to pay an accountant $200 in order to avoid paying $200 to the IRS, I'd rather have the accountant get it.

 

[leadcounsel]

It is a Roth.

 

[RB87]

Some reading on Roth's. Now various folks have been talking about a retirement fund grab for awhile (I started hearing about it 4 years ago) and its not happened yet. I tend to think the fed gov wouldn't be so stupid... but I have no trust in government to not change the rules down the road. I'm wary of most of the gov sponsored retirement plans.

Here It Comes! (Roths) in [Market-Ticker]

 

[Burt Gummer]

98% of the people just cannot accept difficult realities. Any truth of any kind to be accepted must bring some level of comfort. That is why people are so easy to deceive. The herd can always be counted on to believe anything if the alternative is discomforting.

Savings/wealth in an IRA is for those who simply cannot accept that the status quo is ending. It will not be there for you. Accept it or not. You can ignore reality but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Government, financial institution, bank, and status quo clingers: Enjoy your imaginary nest egg.

 

[slimmer13]

People who speak in absolute certainties are full of bubblegum. There are opinions and probabilities but unless you went to MIT I dont want to hear about "mathmatical certainties". Yes this is unsustainable, yes we will reach a tipping point, yes something will absolutely have to change, but as far as a timeline and the form and severity this correction will be, I promise you, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[EZLivin]

There are opinions and probabilities...

Yup. Nobody knows what things will look like on the other side of the crisis. If the internet-based financial system, or even the pre-internet computerized system, continues to function then people who remain within the system, AND are positioned properly, could do very well. If we go the other extreme, Mad Max, then not so well of course. For sure nobody knows what the post-crisis world will look like. We have to take our best guess, and try to stack our deck in our favor.

The current generations of adults - mostly Boomers and Xers - are the ones who are going to experience the majority of pain (or change) because they have lived most of their lives, and generally flourished, in the big-government socialist-style model the West has gone to. That system cannot endure because it has grown too large for the roots (private enterprise) to feed it. It is collapsing now. So it isn't necessarily unreasonable for Boomers and Xers to adobt TEOTWAWKI thinking - because that is what is happening to them! The Milllenial generation (and subsequent generations) may be more fortunate - they will have the opportunity to reinvent the system (post-crisis). They won't have known decades of nanny-state, bloated central government idiology, so hopefully they won't be married to that model like the West is today. If the technological aspects of the system hang together (I believe it will), a huge opportunity is coming our way a decade or so from now as post-crisis restructuring begins.

Or we could just screw up really bad and blow ourselves to HADES.

 

[freestoneangler]

The very first step to prepping is be OUT OF DEBT. If you are in debt you will have problems long before any kind of economic collapse.

The most solid advice of this thread... without a doubt. Not being in debt, diversifying your holdings, keeping 60-90 days worth of food and staples on hand is my plan. The second tier level includes having a place a good distance from mega-city centers, with several routes to/from and access to game. I really have no interest in being the "Omega Man", just want to give us a reasonable chance at surviving the initial unrest until things begin to recover...which I believe would happen as no one I know wants to live in a lawless America.

 

[TapRackNGo]

I believe decisions based on emotion usually do not end well. The key is moderation, get proficient with training, equipment, supplies and enjoy life. To many get caught up in hype and it becomes all consuming, I have lost friends who forget how to enjoy life.

 

[Cortes]

Anyone care to endorse or talk me out of my plan?

Sure!

The $596 trillion in derivatives debt will implode at some point and anything tied to paper will burn and turn to dust, including your IRA.

Simply put and true.

Normalcy Bias is a bubblegum. Conditions (all nations having a fiat currency based on nothing) and many, many factors have never existed like they are right now. Collapse is a mathematical certainty.

Two great points. ^^ Agree ^^

leadcounsel, if you're going to do precious metals then do it in a way where you physically hold the asset. I would not do a fund based on these metals.

Peter

I like this too. And don't put it in a safe deposit box. There was an incident in Southern Oregon, a quart jar of placer gold disappeared out of the safe deposit box. Think the manager can't get in there?

Some reading on Roth's. Now various folks have been talking about a retirement fund grab for awhile (I started hearing about it 4 years ago) and its not happened yet. I tend to think the fed gov wouldn't be so stupid... but I have no trust in government to not change the rules down the road. I'm wary of most of the gov sponsored retirement plans.

Here It Comes! (Roths) in [Market-Ticker]

Argentina took the retirement funds. Now Hungary is doing it. So there is precedence. Hungary Follows Argentina in Pension-Fund Ultimatum, `Nightmare' for Some - Bloomberg

Is it hard to imagine the politicians we have in charge here doing something like that?

When the card houses start to fall, individual retirement accounts will be taken over by the federal government to protect them.

So, to the OP as to your original question. Yes. Cash it out and pay the man. Put it into something that you can physically hold. For what we are really talking about is hedging. Gold and silver are not investments, they are stores of value, or a hedge. Now is the time to hedge.

You can't eat them, so buy something to eat too. Easy, huh?

We are living in interesting times.

 

[RoneKiln]

Gold has had value for thousands of years as currency. To say Gold will be worthless once the economy completely collapses in misguided at best. To even compare the staying power of silver or gold to anything tied to the dollar is laughable.

One has intrinsic value - will always be worth something. The other will vaporize like every other fiat currency has throughout history. Every single fiat currency has historically returned to its real value - $-0-.

When Bosnia melted down in the 90's, gold became worthless there except to those with the means to get out of Bosnia. A can of food would cost hundreds of dollars worth of gold. the only people that would accept it were smugglers able to move stuff in and out. Same thing happened in the devestation of post WWII Europe in many regions. If you are expecting a Mad Max style breakdown world wide, your gold will be worthless until everything settles down and trade resumes. If you are expecting there to be stable regions you can escape to, then gold will be a good way to transport your wealth when you escape. It could be a good element in your preps. Planning to use that gold in the midst of the apocalypse is a waste of your investment. It has not held its value in disaster zones before, it won't in the near future.

Food, medical supplies, hygiene supplies, and ammo will be valued in the midst of disaster the same as in Bosnia during the 90's. I'm not trying to say gold has no value at all. I'm just concerned for people that think having it on hand will buy them what they need in the event of a meltdown. It won't.

 

[8ball]

You guys realize Mad Max was a
movie, right?

 

[gearheadbill]

The very first step to prepping is be OUT OF DEBT. If you are in debt you will have problems long before any kind of economic collapse.

YES! x3

 

[Grunwald]

You guys realize Mad Max was a
movie, right?

What?? No way, it was a documentary shot in the future and then broadcast back into the past thanks to a strange solar flare incident.

 

[sheepdip]

dont do it, it is all:bsflag:

 

[FarmerTed1971]

Silver and bullets. Both will be liquid if SHTF.

 

[Bam]

Enjoy life while it is good... Because say SHTF finally happens, then what? You get to spend the rest of your potentially short life trying to "survive" a early 1900s, late 1800s style of existence which maybe making it to the next day is as good as it got. For some people that might be the ideal lifestyle, but I'm going to enjoy the comforts now. I already have the guns & ammo, I figure when SHTF I am going to go out with a bang. A pillaging rampage actually sounds like fun, I'll skip the raping part I'd like to stay some what civilized.

Save your IRA, while the world will eventually end, it isn't going to be quite tomorrow.

And to quote some of the best advice ever given to humanity... Don't Panic



and know where your towel is at.