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Talk me out of an AR Pistol...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by shibbershabber, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. shibbershabber

    shibbershabber Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    So I'm looking at an AR pistol. 10.5" in 5.56

    It will serve as a fun gun and something to carry while wandering around in the woods... To defend against 2 & 4 legged attacks.

    I like to put my range toys to work sometimes, currently my hiking gun is a pps43c in 7.62x25. But its a little bulky, more weight than I'm looking for and part of it digs into me no matter how I sling it.

    I've always been curious about AR pistols and I've found one I like so I'm selling my PPS to raise the money.

    I already have had many ARs so this seems an easy choice.

    What experiences have you all had with them?
     
  2. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    10.5" Pistols work great as such until you get the SBR paperwork back. You can even use one of those SIG braces and pretend you arent shooting an SBR.

    Mine is a home built SBR using a radical firearms upper. Same thing. It runs 100% of the time and is one of my most accurate guns. I run it on a steady diet of home brewed 4198 fueled 55's and 62's. Runs like a champ.
     
  3. nehalemguy

    nehalemguy Vernonia Well-Known Member

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    Loud. Awkward. A pain to carry. Still kinda cool. Gotta agree with wired...get a SBR.

    E
     
  4. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Theyre a lot less loud with a silencer. Not quiet but the sound is more down range . Quieter than a .22 rifle at the ear.
     
  5. Ironbar

    Ironbar Tigard, OR Well-Known Member

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    What part of the phrase "AR Pistol" isn't enough to turn you off?
     
    soberups likes this.
  6. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    Do it and don't look back......don't ever shoulder it, it's bad and illegal and just as good as an sbr
     
  7. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but nobody that uses them any more actually uses them as a pistol. They are used as SBR's with the goofy SIG "stocks". Just buy or build a "pistol" and use it like that while the paperwork goes through for an SBR then make an honest weapon out of it.
     
  8. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    Honest weapon ?
     
  9. BlindedByScience

    BlindedByScience Vancouver WA Well-Known Member

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    Posted this link in the other guy's SBR thread, it's great info. Should be required reading for anyone thinking about an AR pistol in .223....so the limits and concerns are understood, going in. Long and short of it is the muzzle pressure goes through the roof if you're shorter than 14.5". I'm going to stay at 14.5" and pin / weld a suppressor adapter on the barrel and avoid the whole SBR / brace complexity.

    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093

    When I used to roam the woods on foot and dirt bike, I carried my first pistol in an Uncle Mike's shoulder rig - A stainless 7.5" Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag. Never felt the need for more.

    As they say, one man's opinion......
     
    206thsense likes this.
  10. Kruejl

    Kruejl Hillsboro Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Gold Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I have a pistol lower that I built and am just waiting for some more funds to buy my upper. I'm going with 7". And no Sig Brace. I'm running a Phase 5 pistol tube with pad. I have no intentions of ever shouldering it.
     
    206thsense likes this.
  11. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    lots, both building them and reloading for them. Projectile selection and powder that gives best velocity in short barrels is the key between a serious defensive weapon and a plinker

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    I have countless hours behind short barrels and reloading for them
    do everything an SBR will and if you have the card you can legally conceal it were you cannot an SBR registered with Obama

    imagejpg1_zpsb5560e30.jpg

    IMG_0028_zps893c64d6.jpg
     
    206thsense likes this.
  12. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    FWIW ...little known fact...

    If you build it with a phase 5 tube and a SIG Brace and a 10.5" barrel it gets just long ( over 26" OAL ) enough to be able to use a forward grip on it without having to register it as an AOW with the NFA branch. Its just a "Weapon" and not a "pistol". Heres my "weapon" before I got the SBR paperwork back.

    Tp3hFC.jpg
     
  13. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    Does the tube run all the way to the back of the brace ?
     
  14. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
  15. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    So if people want to measure or plan for 26" they should measure from the end of the receiver extension the end of the threads on the muzzle, how does the brace play into it ?
     
  16. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Overall length is measured. The brace is part of the OAL. With the phase 5 tube the brace is back pretty far so it's an easy 27 inches OAL with the flash hider attached attached which is part of the OAL .

    Heres a link to a copy of the ATF's etter to Franklin Armory OA-26. Similar 26" plus "pistol" . I know letters only apply to the recipient but their reasoning is fully outlined. Letter of the law is the letter of the law.

    http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  17. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    I always understood it as to be measured from permanent to perminate ends.......kind like pining a muzzle device to attain 16" .....if you don't pin the muzzle device it's an SBR with a long muzzle device

    Your 100% confident ?
     
  18. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    No because they are measuring overall length. Its like when you measure the overall length of an SBR you do it with the stock fully extended. When Franklin Arsenal built their OA26 they submitted it with the flash hider attached to a 10.5" barrel and they were approved that way. When they actually started building the "weapon" they added an inch to the barrel length to satisfy customers concerns about removing the flash hider even though it had been approved with the flash hider NOT permanently attached on a 10.5" barrel. The ATF has shown a clear and consistent pattern of counting overall length as fully extended. Without the SIG brace you may be under the limit. Without the flash hider you would be under the limit. I dont recall how deep the extension was under the SIG brace with the Phase 5 I got rid of mine after I SBR'd that one .

    The SBR deal with 16" is different as they are not looking for OAL of a complete firearm. Precedent there is it has to be 16' of permanent barrel length by law. "Weapon" is a different category altogether with no barrel length restrictions.

    Am I 100% confident. Yes. If I still had it in that that configuration I wouldnt hesitate to send my own letter into tech branch for a ruling and letter but given the precedent I don't see that one going any other way. I could almost guarantee that I would get a snide comment in there about not shouldering it though.
     
    oli700 likes this.
  19. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Sure, SBRs allow you to legally shoulder it, but why when you can cheek weld the brace/buffer tube? Its $200 less AND you can put that towards more ammo and mags or parts or optic

    As fun as my SBR is, I find myself shooting and packing my AK pistols instead.

    Build one unless you found a complete one for a decent price. As you build it, you can tailor it to you..especially before this next political session which is sure to make finding parts difficult if not impossible.

    On the plus side, you can sell off everything should you not want it, they'll always be in demand.
    Buffer tube, FCG, upper and BCG..etc and lastly a little lower you can trade
    Or sell off.

    I agree with the above posts though, the AR pistol will tide you over until or if you choose to SBR it. Personally Id leave it as a pistol.
     
  20. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    $200 cheaper than a AR SBR.Never could figure out why a guy would sbr an AR when a pistol does the same thing
    And yeah Imma gunna worry about shouldering the brace when I'm in a firefight
    Oh that's right they're "operators":rolleyes:
    Plus you can put the Dolos fitting on the barrel and have a take down pistol that is as long as your barrel
    https://www.coppercustom.com/shop/parts-kits/dolos-ar15-quick-change-barrel-system/
     
    Flopsweat likes this.