Talk me into buying an AR-15

[oknow]

Here's an article I read a while back that goes against the common thoughts on overpenetration:

Is .223 the Best Home Defense Caliber? - Guns & Ammo

Interesting info I thought.

On whether or not you buy an AR15 or any other rifle: If you don't know why you need one then you probably don't.

Good find On that article

 

[oknow]

Im gonna catch some grief here but that's ok, I don't mind.
Here are my negatives
To me, if you are in a SHTF situation that you are carrying a rifle specifically because it has a high capacity so that you can shoot at more targets then you are walking down the road to your own death.

Tell that to the Korean storeowners Standing on the roof during the riots In California other stores were burned to the ground theirs survived.

 

[Stomper]

I refuse to beg anyone to obtain one of these engineering marvels of mechanically efficient simplicity and accuracy, that a flaccidly weak tween-child can effectively operate.

The one arguably best reason is:

Because you can!

 

[jbett98]

Buy a quality stripped lower first from a private individual. Then, order a quality lower parts kit.
Take your time, watch some You Tube videos and learn how to put it together.
Do more research on what upper would be best for your needs. When you make that decision, start shopping around.
When it's all said and done, you will know that AR inside and out. If it doesn't fit your needs, sell the upper and look for one that does.

 

[Vektus]

Its a good tyranny defense gun. That is all

And 30 round mags are normal capacity

 

[Boats]

Home invasion, multiple opponents. 30 rounds and fast reloads> whatever your shotgun capacity and very slow reloads.

Go ahead and cite me just one "home invasion" where the homeowner/rightful tenant fired 30+ rounds, necessitating a "quick reload." A six-to-eight plus one shotgun load is plenty of initial firepower, even for multiple opponents. With a Saiga-12 and a drum, capacity is a total non-issue for all but the silliest scenarios imaginable.

Penetration is a non issue compared to buckshot. Use varmint rounds in .223 rather than 5.56 FMJ Ball.

If overpenetration is a concern with a shotgun, #1 Buck in the Federal Flight Control load is a good mitigator, tight patterns with lower mass pellets.

Precision. God forbid you ever need to make a hostage shot, but GL doing it with buckshot and if you're worried about over-penetration, slugs are worse than 5.56.

Precision up close is not an AR strong suit due to the height of the sights over the bore. It certainly can be compensated for with a red dot or extensive practice over the irons, but you have to decide what distance you want to be zeroed for before a fight. In the beyond remote odds of having to make a hostage shot across a room, a shotgun with a known pattern can be used on a head shot by aiming higher and to the left or right on the BG's noggin, as needed, especially when using a Flight Control load.

From the Box of Truth, Federal Flight Control #1 Buck at 15 yards on the left. Standard #00 Buck on the right.

That's why I use an AR for our safe room, rather than a shotgun. But if all I had was a shotgun, I'd feel perfectly well defended.

I'm vice versa. I don't mind the AR, but I don't need one either. I find ARs boring and costly relative to what you get if you park that gun money elsewhere.

I have an AR because they are an absolute joy to shoot. Any defensive use is a distant second to that.

That, and veteran familiarity, are the best reasons to own one, not SHTF, where the AR (or AK, FAL, etc,) is likely only a "shoot me first" choice in the hands of most.

 

[RBid]

As a fellow low-crime suburban resident, I am "a pistol guy". I own three firearms right now. All 3 are handguns. I agree completely that it is highly unlikely that a non-hunter in a suburban area will *need* a rifle.

BUT...

There is a glaring need for people like us to own these, to be proficient with them, and to perpetuate this practice: a minute man tradition.

All good things come to an end. Whether it happens in our lifetime or not is irrelevant. We have an obligation to future generations to pass forward a tradition of being prepared and capable of preventing the kinds of things we've seen in other nations. Tienenmen Square in China or recent examples in Turkey and Egypt spring immediately to mind. In any country where these atrocities happen, they follow a period where they are inconceivable to the populace. This is how they are allowed to come to pass.

It is our duty as citizens to maintain a minute man tradition, so that the People are ready, if and when the need arises. Our part is to make sure that we don't drop the ball.

Even if you don't have money for one right now, try to find ways to become proficient. Thanks to friends (and my time in the business), I've had the opportunity to handle and fire them plenty. When I finally bring one home, it won't be unfamiliar. I can pick one up cold, and easily hit out to 200 yards.

 

[Botte Hork]

Its a good tyranny defense gun. That is all

And 30 round mags are normal capacity

I read "it's a good tranny defense gun" at first and was wondering why that would be a particular defensive niche to worry about.


I might need to seek some professional help for my uhh.... reading problems.

 

[mortar maggot]

meener777,

said it well, go basic bare bones, for $800ish or go full on super highend Ferrari model optics, laser, night vision optics, on and on and go damn near bankrupt out fitting it.

West Coast Armory is in Bellevue or drive on down to sight sponsor Rainer Arms and pick one up.

 

[clambo]

Naw, if I were you I would not get one. It doesn't sound like you need one to me as far as it's ability to gain you any realistic advantage. It sounds like shotgun weight is more the problem to focus on. I don't know a way around that one. I suppose if she couldn't handle the weight at all you could and you couldn't find a lighter shotgun, maybe then a carbine of some sort could be worked into play. If that were that case I still wouldn't opt for an AR. Nowdays they have so much crap hung on them you may as well pack a Garand. As someone above mentioned, a lever carbine in a pistol caliber or one of many other pistol caliber carbines might be the ticket. I'm not sure but they must certainly be 2 or 3 lbs less weight than an 870. If I were in your shoes, I'd be getting an old M1 Carbine. Flame suit on now........but it is a viable choice. Marlin Camp Carbine springs to mind too if you can find one.

Interesting dilemma. Good luck and let's hope none of us ever has to use any of them.

 

[dwaineshort]

For me I had a house intruder a few months ago. Thankfully we were upstairs. I have done a lot of training with my handgun, but there is no denying that I'm way better with a rifle. With my ddm4 v7 with Aimpoint and light was lighter then my mossberg 500. Plus I like having instant 30 round over 8 that you have to load every shot.

But the down side to any type of long rifle, or shot gun is length. Clearing corners was a pain in the a#$. Three weeks ago I bought a Tavor Sar B16. I have a shorter profile with that then I do with my handgun in a proper shooting stance. You can get right up to a wall and is really easy to peak from cover.

Plus if you do so research hollow point 5.56..223 with fragment through less material then a shotgun buck/slug, or most hang round 9mm or bigger. The truth is you want to use a weapon you are going to most likely not miss, and train with the most. Most common firearms that people would use for home defense will travel through multiple walls if you miss your target.

 

[Netspirit]

Wow, thanks.

Let me summarize the responses so far.

PROs:

- fun to shoot, learn and customize
- SHTF, temporary trips upstate
- hunting
- competition
- home defense against multiple attackers
- reduced wall penetration with frangible ammo
- familiarity for veterans
- citizen's duty
- keeping tradition
- because we (still) can

CONs:

- price (w/ customizations)
- weight (w/ customizations)
- SHTF (everybody's first target)
- hearing damage indoors (w/o suppressor)
- banned in some places (where your next job may be)
- hostage shots (if sights are tall and zero'ed for long-distance shooting)

 

[RBid]

Tell that to the Korean storeowners Standing on the roof during the riots In California other stores were burned to the ground theirs survived.

Those shop owners are a great counter point, except for two details:

1. There is a fantastic reason why they are the canned, go-to response: they are the only example of long guns coming into play outside of areas where war is being fought. In countless examples of modern (post WW2) SHTF, concealed handguns have remained the best firearm for personal defense.

2. The shop owners were posted up in a static location, not "carrying" in a mobile sense.


For the purpose of static location defense, rifles are extremely relevant. For any mobile carriage, history tells us that concealed/under the radar is the best option. The ability to conceal is part of why I believe that those Glock happy sticks are more practical than people realize. If there is a super storm, and emergency services are temporarily down, rifles will still be relegated to static location defense. Meanwhile, you'll be able to carry a concealed Glock 23, plus a 22 or 31 round spare mag in a satchel.

Naturally, once "war" is on the table, rifles step to the fore.

 

[John H]

If you need to be talked into to it, then you shouldn't have one..

 

[Botte Hork]

Let me respond to some cons:

- weight (w/ customizations)

You are very much in control of that. And depending on where the weight sits, it might not be uncomfortable at all. A heavier stock isn't as much a problem as a heavier barrel, when it comes to carrying, as it'll not 'hang' on you when you hold it up to your face.

- SHTF (everybody's first target)

Honestly, I'm not convinced. If you start walking around outside with a rifle in your hands, perhaps. But when the actual S is H'ing TF and you need to shoot a lot, it'll be a benefit. And you can make anything less tacticool looking.

- hearing damage indoors (w/o suppressor)

The AR is a loud beast, but that pretty much applies to any caliber. Wouldn't want to fire my measly 9mm indoors either and a 22LR discharge indoors will not be welcomed by your ears either.

- banned in some places (where your next job may be)

My company is based in CA, but if they want to force me back, they'll need to revise most of the state's firearm laws first. So I'm not going anywhere.

- hostage shot precision (high sights)

Honestly?




edit:

If you need to be talked into to it, then you shouldn't have one..

Come on, many of us are just lusting after gear, so why not encourage that? Makes us look less bad.

 

[Stomper]

C'mon, bad is good... because good is dumb.

 

[Hawaiian]

The number one reason is they are really fun to shoot. That is why I have a few. Number two reason, is it makes me feel a little better that if in the unlikely event of SHTF, I am a little more prepared. Not that it will save me, but it sure won't hurt me either.

 

[Pandaz3]

Well I do believe that you can build one, but I think a Daniels Defense is a great quality rifle, a great choice as you will know it is correct, that will give you confidence. Build one after you have some experience with one and have a better idea what you want. If you are going to order one get the Gessile trigger. Shooting is all about sight picture and trigger control. The standard trigger on most DD rifles feels "Gritty" and the optional one "Smooth". As many have said, you don't need one except for riots or something like that. You won't be able to buy one then. It is like insurance for your car, you don't plan on having an accident, but having insurance is "Prudent".

 

[GuyBMeredith]

Nah, they're just a niche item. They have a big fan club, but so does other unnecessary bling like smartphones, iPads, etc.

On the other hand, if you have your wife try one out and it fits her needs, then that is all the excuse you need. Personally, I will probably never buy one.

My home defense is a Mossberg 500 with buckshot and slugs. The plan is to barricade and not go around checking dark corners in the house before the police (*yawn*) arrive.

I don't expect a hostage situation unless we have company over, but I find I'm pretty good with slugs at that range.

If I needed something more I might go to the Garand. It is a sweet soft shooter, accurate and potent for everything short of sniping. I thought I'd be cute using the Garand in 3 gun as a joke, but apparently others are actually doing this and it turns out not to be such a joke.

 

[deen_ad]

Sorry, not going to even try!

That leaves one more out there for me to select from!


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"