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Not just tribalism. Put into play, it is Existential Nihilism at it's worst. Under which theory there is no intrinsic value in anything. And the world about us has no value other than that which the individual gives it. The operative is not just "Why shouldn't I kill you, your dog, your family, and help myself to your stuff" but "What difference does it make". In a world where people don't admit the concept of value to anything or anyone other than themselves, and sometimes not even that, devolution and violence run rampant.

Save us from philosophers, thinkers, and people with too much time on their hands!
 
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Yes Libertas7, in a coherent and cohesive society one expects to have his rights respected. That's the only way a group can survive. Because it's not so much being protected by others as it is having empathy for others. Those that don't are known as SOCIOPATHS!
I didn't mean we shouldn't care for and help others, but that do they really have the right to demand that we have to help them.
 
"Do you not see though J-Rod how American Gun Owners feel they have a right to deprive the life of others, a right they do not grant in the first place (raising the question of who empowered them to strip it)?

This is one of the reasons why gun owners have no morals and no character to speak of.


This is someone who 1) doesn't have the vaguest notion of what a "right" is and (2) has entirely too many 1st World Problems.

People like this don't understand what I "right" is. The notion of "rights" implies that there is an understanding of the social contract between human beings. This is why the notion of 'animal rights" is so hilarious. Animals have no understanding of the social contract wherein I agree to not murder you and take your money when I see you in your nice car; and you agree in return not to run me down in the crosswalk because I am wearing a Boise State jersey and you are a Ducks fan.

Animals just go off of instinct. If a mountain lion is hungry, it doesn't have a long question filled conundrum to solve related to how it feels about the impact on the children of the deer will have by it's killing and eating it. It stalks and kills it's food and fills it's belly.

In the realm of higher order beings; my "right" to defend myself (given to me by God or natural law--Not man), is easily outclassed by some criminal dirt-bag's "right" to continue breathing while they attempt to rape my children, rob me of my last dollar that would pay to feed them, or end my life so they can take what I have worked hard for.

I have no doubt that this person has ever met a gun owner.
 
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That's exactly what I said in post #8, but using "ye olde English" because it made me look smart and sophisticated, as well as demonstrates gun owners have class and culture. :D


Having said that, I don't give TWO SQUIRTS OF PEE what those pseudo-intellectual types think... they only THINK that they think. o_O
 
I didn't mean we shouldn't care for and help others, but that do they really have the right to demand that we have to help them.

Not sure what your context is but I'll give it a try: First, I prefer speaking in terms of "we" rather than "they" where possible, so bear with me please. Ok. So, IMO there is no "right" to demand except where we are demanding our rights be respected in general and upheld by the courts specifically.

Are we obligated to protect others? Are we obligated to help others? Not generally by law. However, there is a moral and ethical issue in your question. Do I accept a "personal" obligation to protect others? Do I accept a "personal" obligation to help others? Depends. I do make a "choice" to do that where possible depending on the circumstances. Would I throw $50 at a street beggar? Nope! Not even if one "demands" my help. Would I stop for a car crash on the freeway or jump in the ocean to help a swimmer? Yes, I've done both! Would I risk myself against a gun wielding crook or an active shooter? Depends on my analysis of the situation.
 
Look around the world at places such as Syria, Iran, or Somalia where there is no value to human life.

Kinda proves my point, don't ya think?

Is it because they believe I have a right to life, they are afraid of the consequences or most likely, they have nothing to gain by my death?

All but the first. And yet more reasons, e.g. because there is risk in trying to kill somebody; that somebody might kill you back. Next time your home is invaded and somebody has a gun to your head, explain to him you have a right to life. See how far that gets you.

Nobody's life was ever saved because of their "right" to life. Criminals don't pay attention to rights any more than they pay attention to laws. Only other considerations, those connected to reality, can save a life. Those who depend on a right to life to protect themselves and their families are fools. Buy a gun instead!

I don't care if people have such religious notions in their heads, but it's safer to have a firm connection to reality. Also these notions are an aid to the ruling class. Makes people think we need them.
 
Let's put together a thought experiment. Imagine you are in a situation where none of these factors connected to reality apply. Someone is motivated to kill you and has something to gain from it, is capable mentally of killing you, is guaranteed by the situation to have no consequences for killing you. The only thing left is your "right to life", and you remind him of that. What do you think your chances of survival are?
 
Not sure what your context is but I'll give it a try: First, I prefer speaking in terms of "we" rather than "they" where possible, so bear with me please. Ok. So, IMO there is no "right" to demand except where we are demanding our rights be respected in general and upheld by the courts specifically.

Are we obligated to protect others? Are we obligated to help others? Not generally by law. However, there is a moral and ethical issue in your question. Do I accept a "personal" obligation to protect others? Do I accept a "personal" obligation to help others? Depends. I do make a "choice" to do that where possible depending on the circumstances. Would I throw $50 at a street beggar? Nope! Not even if one "demands" my help. Would I stop for a car crash on the freeway or jump in the ocean to help a swimmer? Yes, I've done both! Would I risk myself against a gun wielding crook or an active shooter? Depends on my analysis of the situation.
You put things so much clearer then me. I'll see if I can get my thoughts across better: just because someone has the right to life does not, of itself, mean anyone is legally obligated to protect or help them/us. That's not to say we shouldn't respect and uphold our/others rights, as individuals or as a society. I'm pretty sure we're agreeing. :)
 
You put things so much clearer then me. I'll see if I can get my thoughts across better: just because someone has the right to life does not, of itself, mean anyone is legally obligated to protect or help them/us. That's not to say we shouldn't respect and uphold our/others rights, as individuals or as a society. I'm pretty sure we're agreeing. :)

Oh yes, we are agreeing. Good work!
 
Kinda proves my point, don't ya think?

Hahahahahahah!!!! No. Read it again.

Nobody's life was ever saved because of their right to life huh? Hahahahaha. As I said before, civilized societies are based on rights. One of the most prevalent is a right to life. Countless lives are saved every day because society has enshrined this principle in the rule of law and individuals have made it part of their personal code. That criminal societies and individuals have no such beliefs does not logically translate into no lives being saved (0). However, the opposite is logically true (1), that societies or individuals that do not adhere to a concept of a right to life therefore give no value to life therefore take life whenever it pleases them.

Right to life as a religious notion? Oh, I see where your problem is now... an atheist as well as an anarchist. Stuck on abortion as a religious issue, rather than a murder issue. Ever heard of Natural Rights buddy? I'll bet you have. Nothing to do with religion!!! Hahahahahaha!
 
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Let's put together a thought experiment. Imagine you are in a situation where none of these factors connected to reality apply. Someone is motivated to kill you and has something to gain from it, is capable mentally of killing you, is guaranteed by the situation to have no consequences for killing you. The only thing left is your "right to life", and you remind him of that. What do you think your chances of survival are?

Let's postulate a ratiocinative answer to your hypothetical scenario. Out of the possible outcomes there are two that are the most probable:
1. The "someone" dies because I am armed and have the will to defend myself.
2. I die because I am unarmed or lack the will to defend myself.
Corollary possibilities are:
a. That I beat the crap out of him with whatever is handy or my bare fists, martial arts or whatever, and leave him for dead.
b. That he manages to harm but not kill me.
 
Let's put together a thought experiment. Imagine you are in a situation where none of these factors connected to reality apply. Someone is motivated to kill you and has something to gain from it, is capable mentally of killing you, is guaranteed by the situation to have no consequences for killing you. The only thing left is your "right to life", and you remind him of that. What do you think your chances of survival are?
I'll run through the scenario two different ways.

  1. The individual does not know/care I have a right to life. well, the most I could hope for is that they laugh at me, distracting them long enough for me to run away or attack them. I would probably die.
  2. The individual forgot I have the right to life, but would care if they remembered. Then, when I reminded them, they would not kill me because my right to life is more important then whatever it is they would gain. and I would have a good chance of surviving.
So, if they do not care I would most likely die, but if they do, I might live. It also depends on how high we place the right to life, if you ask the average murderer I doubt they care much, if at all.
 
Preparation for the revolution is not just a matter of buying cartridges. It also involves sorting through your beliefs, and shucking yourself of those that hobble you.

Many have observed that if you want Liberty, the first thing to free is your own mind. We are all indoctrinated from an early age; it is not trivial to throw that off.

Look at this description of what Paine's Common Sense meant to the first revolution:

Before Common Sense was published, except for a few radical thinkers, the people of the American colonies were "on the fence" about independence. Individuals were in conflict with themselves, and there were those who leaned toward reconciliation with the British crown. George Trevelyan in his History of the American Revolution had this to say about Paine's pamphlet:

It would be difficult to name any human composition which has had an effect at once so instant, so extended and so lasting [...] It was pirated, parodied and imitated, and translated into the language of every country where the new republic had well-wishers. It worked nothing short of miracles and turned <broken link removed> into Whigs.<broken link removed>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_(pamphlet)

Of course Paine looked at the situation in a new way, and explained it in a fashion that was accessible to all.
 
Back waaaay up to the beginning: A Star Wars fanatic is fanatically anti-gun? It's a story whose heroes are an armed rebellion violently overthrowing an oppressive government with, y'know, blasters and light sabers and all manner of offensive ships and artillery. WTF does he think the Jedi carry light sabers for? Where would Han be without his blaster? Or R2D2 without his taser thingy?

Wait, maybe his favorite side is the Empire?
 

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