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I believe Riot summed it up nicely. After working for the Department of Corrections in another state for 15 years I have seen many situations that, while on the surface seem to contradict state laws they are usually covered in other sections of the law that most people never see as it doesn't apply to their daily lives. In general it is a felony to bring contraband on to prison grounds. Some items simply are illegal to bring inside of the secure perimeter such as cell phones, and can be legally left in the vehicle. Other things are illegal to bring onto prison grounds period. I recall one instance where an attorney stopped in at a prison to visit one of his clients on the way back from a long weekend trip where he had purchased several bottles of alcohol. He was told at the gate that if he proceeded his vehicle was subject to search (they were doing spot checks on vehicles due to a tip about some drug smuggling). The attorney apparently forgot what he had in the trunk or thought it didn't matter and proceeded to the parking area where the alcohol was discovered and he was arrested for introducing contraband to a state prison facility.
I also recall a situation where a staff member had an assigned state vehicle that was due for maintenance. The minimum security inmates perform the maintenance under supervision of staff, When the inmates were cleaning the vehicle they discovered the officers personal carry weapon under the seat of the car and, as they didn't know if it was a test or not, and they didn't want to loose minimum security status, they notified the shop supervisor and assigned officer of the situation. The officer who failed to remove the weapon before maintenance was allowed to retire rather than be fired.
In some locations local law enforcement has a beef with prison staff as Correctional Officers make substantially more money than the local cops. I know a warden that ran into this problem after they opened a new prison back in the 80s. They had a local officer who had wandered on to prison grounds in the middle of the night and started writing tickets for staff who had out of state plates as in that state you are required to register your car in the state if you are working there. After a few days of harassment they arrested the officer for bringing firearms on to prison grounds without checking his weapon(s) or notifying the prison that they were on grounds and armed.

There was mention above that one of the regulations quoted was in reference to courts / court proceedings. In many prisons now days the high risk inmates are given trials on prison grounds via video conference with the courthouse to reduce escape attempts and to save on guarding costs. If you have a high security inmate go to court in person the guards often end up being paid overtime due to conflicts between court time, transportation time, and shift changes. What people who have not worked in the correctional setting don't see is that each prison is given a budget and the warden is responsible for trying to stay within the budget. If the sworn officer budget is exceeded they need to pull funds from other areas to cover those costs. Most often they end up shorting the maintenance budget to cover costs and the lower the maintenance budget the less secure your prison becomes over time (something only inmates with escape plans are in favor of).
As for staff/outside law enforcement checking weapons, the last prison I was involved with activating had a weapons check located at the vehicle sallyport in direct view of the sallyport control tower and involved the guard lowering a key for a specific locker down to the officer, a series of 2 gates interlocked so only one could be open at a time and both were buzzed from the tower. and the key was returned to the tower before being allowed through the sallyport.

All of that said, I do believe that there should be either an off site location to park with a shuttle or a location to check your weapons when visiting.
 
i am glad to see that everyone has their own views on this subject. I was not doing this today to push the limits or question anyone or anything. I did it in good faith because I wanted to follow the law. My point is not to stir up anything or cause problems, but I have always believed that if i don't know my right, I have no rights. For everyone that thinks me taking a gun to a prison is a bad idea, I can respect that. That is your opinion and your thoughts and you are entitled to it as much as I am my opinions and my decision to take it with me today. We all think differently on issues.

I just finished writing a fairly long e-mail to the superintendent of the facility I was at today asking for clarification on the issue today. I quoted both RCWs that I posted here in my original post. I'll have to wait and see what she has to say about it. If I get nowhere with her, I will go one step farther. I know some of you think it is dumb and stupid that I am going anywhere with this, but I feel that I need to make sure that a wrong is made right.

Please let us know how it comes out. I'm curious only for curiosity-sake. It's not a decision I would necessarily make, but what I've personally appreciated is the method in which you've asked the question of the larger group.

Plus I do think it's funny at some of the reactions you've gotten. You've gotten questioned a lot more than some of the people who post indignant whiny posts about how they weren't allowed to open carry into Wal Mart.
 
How is it that when one law is followed it is fine and dandy but when other laws are also followed someone is "pushing the law" or is dumb for following it?

Example A. Bob is driving and sign says 55 mph so the Bob does 55 mph (the max speed limit). Driver is a great guy and is not "pushing the limit" even though he is right at the max.

Example B. Sign in front of school says "No weapons allowed RCW 9.41.280" so Bob goes to pick up his kids at school with a gun in his car. Bob is now viewed as a bad guy even though he is well WITHIN (not right at the max) his right to do so because he actually too the time to read the RCW that the sign stated, RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities and can clearly read it is 100% legal for him to do.

The law is the law. If you are following it there is no pushing it.
 
civilian, how do you think the law is vague? I might be mis-understanding your post, but in the RCW I posted, it says the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

That doesn't seem vague to me. You're right it doesn't require a "check-in area", but it requires them to provide an area to leave it locked up. With a prison being a public building, they should still have this box or a person to check it in. Since I go there occasionally, I think I will take some legal action and make sure they follow the law and so others and me can legally take our firearms there.

Yes, you are right. My bad. I read too quick and missed the paragraph. This is my cookie cutter response to many other laws that truly suffer of this.
 
I wanted to go visit a friend in King County Hotel last week. Wasn't sure if they had a "safe" or "legal" area to check weapons... So I called in and asked:




Operator: Hello, King county jail...

ME: Hi I have a couple stupid questions.

Operator.. (Laughing) Go ahead sir.

Me: Is there somewhere for me to secure my carry pistol if I want to come and visit an inmate?

Operator: Are you seriously asking me if theres a place at the JAIL to lock up a gun?

Me: Yes.

Operator: Youre right its a stupid question, No you cant bring a gun into the jail.

Me: Well, I figured Id call and ASK before I just came in and walked to the lockers on the left side of the door and put it and my cellphone in a locker. As the restriction is for federal buildings I wasn't sure, but Id FIGURE that yall might actually have something available for law abiding CPL carrying folks to secure their weapon(s). I guess Theyd be MUCH more secure left in a car parked in an unattended parking lot on 3rd and Jackson though...

Operator: Well Im just not sure why youd think you could bring a gun into a jail


Me: Im not. I THOUGHT I could check my LEGAL weapon in a locker or the like. Obviously im not trying to bring it INTO jail, or I wouldnt have called... right?

Operator: No, you cant.






Me: Thank you for your time.




Now: the question... AM I breaking the law walking into the foyer and going straight to the lockers and putting everything but my ID in the locker before I go to the shefrrif for checkin??






Reading RIOTs post looks like Ill just have to leave it in the car or go naked.


bubblegum
 
having a concealed carry license don't make you a cop,nor does it give you the same rights as a cop,although most people act like it does when they first start to carry,then a year or so down the road they chill out and realize it is a special responsibility you have when carrying a gun and you dont need to brandish it everywhere you go or try to push the limits where you take it.
do you know how many people lose their ccl right away by bringing it in the police station to deal with ccl issues?
dont know about washington but in oregon you will lose it right away and be charged with a crime for bringing it on the property.
In WA it is perfectly legal to take a weapon into a sheriff's office or police station, even into a prison or mental institution AS LONG as you don't go into the locked down non-public areas of them. The areas I mention are REQUIRED by law to provide a locked storage box or someone to care for them while the owner is inside. The law also says that the receiver of the weapon is responsible for any damage or loss to it.
This is what the OP wanted to do and is perfectly legal.
 
That is RCW 9.41.300 and looks to me as if it's referring to courthouses in WA.

You missed this part:
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
 
"Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public" is where I take issue with the belief that police stations and jails are entirely restricted. The way this is phrased, as long as you are not entering a locked area or passing a checkpoint(sign in area), and can come and go without notifying the agency, you are in a common area open to the general public and thus not in a restricted area. At the PD that I work, we have lock boxes for weapons before entering the holding area. I know Kirkland is the same with their jail. The issue is that people, including those in law enforcement, do not know the law. For example, at least once per year an email is put out from our legal department reminding all that possessing a gun in a park is legal in WA because officers will still try to cite people for simply carrying. Enlightenment will not come about unless those that have misconceptions are challenged and subsequently educated. Unfortunately, this almost always means trouble for those who decide to take on the task.
The Sheriff's office here in Vancouver just removed their signs a few months ago because it was against the state law:
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
I sent an email to the county commissioners and got an answer back that they were planning on removing the signs as it was illegal (which the have since done)

Also, this seems to have been left out so far:
(8) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.
 
So am I totally a retard for my interpretation as how this applies to a WA (King CO) jail?

Im getting that I can carry into the lobby (where the lockers are), and lock my cell phone gun and keys etc in the locker, then go past the checkpoint (there's a metal detector and sheriff downstairs where you check in) and go for my visit. Obviously im not going to make it obvious.

Ill carry my TCP in a wallet holster that night..... I dont think anyone would have any idea anyways....

Im just trying to be responsible... Its rather new to me LOL.


Maybe I should memorize the exact RCW?Just in case I AM confronted? I doubt it though.

Plan would be straight to locker, put belongings in, go visit. Empty locker.. Leave.
 
This whole thread reminds me of the perils of electing lawyers to political office. The legal profession is self-serving. By making multiple laws that obfuscate the issue and introduce gray areas they serve only to employ more lawyers to "settle" the gray areas (which will never be clearly settled).
 
So am I totally a retard for my interpretation as how this applies to a WA (King CO) jail?

Im getting that I can carry into the lobby (where the lockers are), and lock my cell phone gun and keys etc in the locker, then go past the checkpoint (there's a metal detector and sheriff downstairs where you check in) and go for my visit. Obviously im not going to make it obvious.

Ill carry my TCP in a wallet holster that night..... I dont think anyone would have any idea anyways....

Im just trying to be responsible... Its rather new to me LOL.


Maybe I should memorize the exact RCW?Just in case I AM confronted? I doubt it though.

Plan would be straight to locker, put belongings in, go visit. Empty locker.. Leave.

See Jails and Court houses should have a way for you to lock up firearms. I don't see how you could get into trouble (unless there is a sign before you enter the doorway about firearms). I know a lot of police stations that have security at the front door to check in unauthorized equipment (like firearms) in a locker before you enter the foyer, just after the entrance.

I realize that it is hard for you guys to be able to find a happy medium between following the laws and rules but still be able to defend yourself. I honestly hope a compromise can be made. There shouldn't be just this overwhelming attitude that civies bringing guns are automatically up to no good and should be shunned as such. I realize that not all LEOs feel this way nor know the letter of the law when it fully pertains to firearms. Even I was basically scolded by an LEO one time for stating that my NC permit was good in WA...an officer told me that WA state has no reciprocity with any state's permit, other than WA...obviously this isn't true and my attempts to "educate" fell on deaf ears.

Hopefully, one day, LEO and the rest of the populous can embrace the firearm community...until then we have a constant uphill battle in front of us.
 
The part that gets me about this thread, is, it's being argued whether or not a gun is allowed to be legally carried by a CCW holder, under current law, while entering the premises of a jail/prison property when it can not be carried onto the premises of a public school property. <shruggs>
 
The part that gets me about this thread, is, it's being argued whether or not a gun is allowed to be legally carried by a CCW holder, under current law, while entering the premises of a jail/prison property when it can not be carried onto the premises of a public school property. <shruggs>

What law do you have to support that?

Many others have posted the actual WA state laws that prove the OP is right....................


UPDATE:
It sounds like I might have miss read your post or point, I am sorry.

Guns can be on school grounds in WA but there are restrictions, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280
 
What law do you have to support that?

Many others have posted the actual WA state laws that prove the OP is right....................



No, they meant the irony of it apparently being OK to carry into the "common" area or a prison where its OBVIOUSLY got more "danger protential", but not carry into a school building... where you might catch a cold from the filthy little booger eating morons that frequent those places. ;)
 
What law do you have to support that?

Many others have posted the actual WA state laws that prove the OP is right....................


UPDATE:
It sounds like I might have miss read your post or point, I am sorry.

Guns can be on school grounds in WA but there are restrictions, RCW 9.41.280: Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities

I don't see any exemptions to "carry onto school grounds". It's pretty clearly NOT legal! RCW 9.41.280
Locked in a car... that's the same as a prison/jail ...NO?!
 
I don't see any exemptions to "carry onto school grounds". It's pretty clearly NOT legal! RCW 9.41.280
Locked in a car... that's the same as a prison/jail ...NO?!

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
 
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;


"while picking up or dropping off a student" which does not indicate anything specific other than parking lot, curb. Not the halls, or the classroom.

and I also read this - (7) "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs shall be posted around school facilities giving warning of the prohibition of the possession of firearms on school grounds
 
Well last time I checked parking areas are school grounds but maybe I am wrong. But in WA you are correct that you can not generally carry as an individual around on school property. EDIT: Redcap's post has a great point if you read vs reading into the law......

But as it has been said here are the exemptions,

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

(d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.


As for signage it has to show the RCW so that people can actually see what law is being enforced and the exemptions. If the law actually said "GUN-FREE ZONE" with no exemptions to the law even LEO on duty would not be able to legally carry there.
 
"while picking up or dropping off a student" which does not indicate anything specific other than parking lot, curb. Not the halls, or the classroom.

and I also read this - (7) "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs shall be posted around school facilities giving warning of the prohibition of the possession of firearms on school grounds

It doesn't say anything against carrying in the halls or classroom when you are picking up or dropping off a student either.
 
It doesn't say anything against carrying in the halls or classroom when you are picking up or dropping off a student either.

It's implied, and would be interpreted by many in a legal capacity, to be used as a "brief" allowance for a CCW licensed individual to not have to disarm themselves for a "short" amount of time on school grounds in order to be a taxi/chauffeur of a student.

It seems obvious to me the way it is written to be clear the law does not allow any "extra" time to be on school grounds with a CCW waiting for a student to even meet with a teacher, principle or allow for waiting for the student to finish an activity.

It is clearly written in a way to discourage anyone with a CCW to even briefly loiter for ANY REASON!!

The compelling text is "to drop off or pick-up". This indicated and extremly brief period of time and and minimal "on grounds" penetration depth!!

* this ties into the vagueness of the jail gun issue. Plenty of room to interpret as "stay away with your weapon"
to be legally argued.
 

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