Take a visitor from outside the US to the Range

[User 1234]

I should make clear that I don't care either way, and don't have a dog in this fight. I just wanted to alert people that there is a potential issue with taking foreign friends to the range. Everyone can do whatever they choose to do.

 

[11Charlie]

OK this is completely AWESOME!! Nicely done!!

 

[CLT65]

I should make clear that I don't care either way, and don't have a dog in this fight. I just wanted to alert people that there is a potential issue with taking foreign friends to the range. Everyone can do whatever they choose to do.

I do appreciate that. I'm a by-the-book type and I want to make sure I'm in the right legally. For curiosity, I called a gun range in Vegas. The guy I talked to said that they are high profile so they have lawyers make sure their rental policies follow the law. He said there are a few particular things they have to watch for but in general it's really no problem at all.

 

[Helocat]

Fiddletown is wrong. He's taking one thing and applying it to another. Call up a Las Vegas gun range and ask them if foreign visitors can rent and shoot guns there. They will tell you that they do it all the time, every day of the week. We could argue theoretical what-ifs and letter of the law all day long, but these guys do it all day long.

For the record, my cousin and his kids have dual citizenship, so it's a complete non-issue for them.

Agreed. The way I read that CalGuns thread is its classic internet, one persons opinion that has his own interpretation citing case law as yet another interpretation, then wants to argue it. Also notice the mods on that board did a good job closing the thread in less than 5hrs as soon as Fiddletown went full lawer on the board members. ("You NEVER go Full Lawer".....Tropic Thunder joke for those who get it)

I am comfortable of my judgement to share a safe firearms experience with my foreign friends. I come into contact with domestic pepole every week that I would never take out onto the range. Just like any firearm owner, the #1 tool we have is our own brain and the judgment that comes with that. Use it wisely. Share, educate, be an example what what a we want others to not just see, but be.

It's always an opinion, but I wish to see firearm educated people with actual safe experiences speak and share what they have learned with others. The anti-gun movement uses fear to manipulate people with no actual firearm experience, their #1 enemy is firearm education. Sign me up to educate.

 

[Diamondback]

Fiddletown is also one of Those Guys from Post-Oleg THR, IIRC...

 

[CLT65]

One interesting thing I did find online, was regarding "ITAR rules that prevent anyone in the United States from providing instruction in the use of firearms to nonresident aliens."

I hardly expect that this would ever be an issue when taking your Dutch friends out for an afternoon of casual target shooting, but it would be something to be well aware of if ever asked to instruct a tactical weapons training class for visiting Libyans.

Exactly what are "instructions in the use of firearms"? You could say that technically some basic safety rules for casual target practice could fall under that definition, but in this context, it's pretty clear that they're talking about something else entirely.

 

[6Corsa6]

I took an exchange student to safefire range. On their website it has the info on which foreign nationals are allowed to handle/use/rent guns

 

[CLT65]

Thank you for that. That's excellent info to know!

Lots of countries missing from that list: Russia, China, Israel, Argentina, Brazil, pretty much all middle eastern, central and south American countries. I'm curious now as to the legalities of visitors from those countries. Funny, searching the net I find articles about how gun ranges are popular with Chinese tourists, and things like that.

I'm not worried about it myself, especially since any international visitors I might have are from countries on that list, but I am curious. Not enough to bother the guy I called at the range again, and ask him just who can't shoot.

 

[tac]

I've said this before, and make no bones about repeating it, for the benefit of those for whom it has not yet fully sunken in -

Of ALL the civilised nations on the entire planet, only the United States of America has the Right to keep and bear Arms written into the founding document of the nation. In every other civilised nation, this 'right to armed self-defence' is either a privilege that must be paid for and permitted, and can therefore be rescinded, or it is prohibited altogether.

When you wake up in your bed every morning, give thanks that you were born a citizen of the USA.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I have shown many people who my display of firearms...
By "Shown" , I mean talking about the firearms there on display and even allowing them to handle and at times shoot them.
Most have been US Citizens...some have not.

I am not aware of breaking any law.
Granted ignorance is no excuse...and the firearms in my display are in most cases actual antiques or replicas thereof....So many laws , bans , restrictions and the like do not apply....
That said...
IF....
A visitor to my display shows a genuine interest in learning safe firearm handling , history and is willing to listen and obey my instructions...then I will , if the time and place allows , give them a chance to handle and shoot one of my firearms.

The chance of giving someone a positive encounter with guns and a gun owner , as well as , providing a much needed PR boost , occurs seldom....I am not going to pass it up.
Andy

 

[tac]

All my sessions on US shooting ranges, over the last 20+ years have been in the company of mine host of the day. At no time have I picked up a few guns at the home, and driven myself to the range and popped a few [hundred] caps. Last time we were over in OR my pal L took me to the Tri-counties gun club, near Tualatin, and signed me in a his guest. 'twas ever thus, whether I was with L or Joe and Ron at the Izaak Walton club near Yoojeen, or even, on the odd occasion, at Clark Rifles. At no time was I in possession of a gun of any kind without the actual owner standing right there with me.

Is there a law broken here?

 

[nwslopoke]

Nothing more powerful than an opened mind. Last year my friend came up for his daughter's wedding. While the women folk were to do their stuff we figured to have a few hours to shoot. When I got to his place two couples were waiting. We want to go too. Suffed all 5 of us in my truck and headed to the woods

Two had never shot before. The girlfriend 5' 100 lbs loved the 308. The guy shot my Sig P229 so good I wanted to give it to him. The drive thru the woods shook them a little at first. I'm sure the wife whispered, how well do you know this guy. Both women were in education. All were from California and asked what so wrong with those guns that where all banned there.

 

[ma96782]

I once took this Chinese guy shooting with me. We had a wonderful day at the range shooting a variety of my handguns and rifles. Then, I asked him if he would hold my target. He said, "Sure".


....NOT!

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

Hawaii, also has shooting for tourists from foreign lands..........

Gun Tourism Is All The Rage In Hawaii

Aloha, Mark

PS....."Possession". Anyone remember that after G. Gordon LIDDY did his time at Club Fed, he had a syndicated radio program? So then......he would often comment that Mrs. Liddy owned firearms, but he didn't. Is it that hard to imagine? That G. Gordon had access, maybe even cleaned/touched or was in close proximity to firearms while unsupervised in his household? So then, if the ATF was ever looking for a hi-profile guy to bust for "possession", just to make a point.....well, Liddy would have/could have been their poster boy.

BUT.......YES, I've also heard of case where a GF was prosecuted for allowing her "prohibited person boyfriend" to be in proximity to her firearm.

 

[EPS]

I should make clear that I don't care either way, and don't have a dog in this fight. I just wanted to alert people that there is a potential issue with taking foreign friends to the range. Everyone can do whatever they choose to do.

there can be a issue with age and stuff like that and where they are from .exchange students can be a big problem.depends on where there from.do your homework know the rules.

 

[tac]

I have shown many people who my display of firearms...
Andy

Last time I 'showed' my little collection at a 'show and tell' at a US military base where I was a R&GC member [only 10% of the membership were 'mercans, oddly enough], my late 1770's long rifle, made by Peter Gonter of Lancaster County, unnacountably went missing while I was stuffing my face with apple pie.

That lunch cost me $3000.75.

Sadly, they took the contemporary scrimshawed powder horn with it.

Kinda put me off, y'know?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Luckily theft hasn't been an issue when I have display....Sorry to hear 'bout the theft of your Longrifle and powder horn....
Andy

 

[PaulB47]

Sure none of us would prefer the law to prohibit something as innocent as a foreign visitor standing next to us target shooting, but that doesn't change what the law actually says.

Some laws just cry out to be ignored... However if I was out doing this I would look for a spot off the beaten track. It's best to have no contact with govt employees at all.

I always thought one could make a little business of this, but then it would be wise to get your legal ducks in a row.