Tactical training

[A Nomadic Hobo]

So I have the money, and the firearms, but now I want formal tactical training. do you guys have any suggestions? I've got basic tactical firearm skills, but I want formal training. I figure If I have the money then why not, right?

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[Kimber Custom]

I'm not sure I would call Appleseed 'tactical training' but I can tell you that it is some of the best marksmanship training you can get for the money. $70 gets you two days and ~400 rounds down range; by the end you will have all of the technique necessary to shoot 4MOA out to 500 yards.

We teach sling use, Natural Point Of Aim, position transitions (standing, secondary & prone), 6 steps of firing a shot, Inches Minutes Clicks and how to zero your rifle and more.

 

[Thebastidge]

Tactical...

There are a bunch of armchair commando "tactical" training courses. They are not all equal. Do your research carefully.

But first you need to define what you mean by tactical and what is most useful to you. Do you want to learn how to do a SWAT stack for dynamic entry into a suspected crack house? Do you want to learn patrol techniques for hostile territory? What's "tactical"? What TACTICS do you want to learn? You can enter into IPSC and IDPA tournements- not entirely realistic but gives you a chance to practice shooting and moving in a way that most ranges don't allow.

 

[Misterbill]

Tactical...

There are a bunch of armchair commando "tactical" training courses. They are not all equal. Do your research carefully.

But first you need to define what you mean by tactical and what is most useful to you. Do you want to learn how to do a SWAT stack for dynamic entry into a suspected crack house? Do you want to learn patrol techniques for hostile territory? What's "tactical"? What TACTICS do you want to learn? You can enter into IPSC and IDPA tournements- not entirely realistic but gives you a chance to practice shooting and moving in a way that most ranges don't allow.

Agree.

You need to define what you're interested in a lot more clearly before we can really answer the question. "Tactical" has become synonymous with "Mall Ninja," and therefore largely ignored except for LEO/Military areas.

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

Well, my idea of tactical training would be what they train special forces, I might just have to find a veteran operator and see if he'll teach me what he was trained if I pay him. I only want to do this because I am unable to join the military even though it's always been my dream. Since I can't join, I still want to learn those tactics.

 

[Thebastidge]

If I may ask, why you are unable to join the military? You're starting to edge into mall ninja territory.

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

I had/have a severe heart condition, it was basically fixed during my third open heart surgery, but the military won't let me in, and one of the main reasons I wanted to joinwas the training. Trust me I'm not going mall ninja status, in complete honesty, if I could enlist I would. And no I do not own an m4 or any other AR platform rifle since I don't like them. I do however own a few eastern block guns. I don't want to be confused with a mall ninja haha.

 

[Thebastidge]

This is what you want to learn?

Special Forces (United States Army) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why?

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

A lot of reas and I've always just loved learning new tactics, fight styles, methods of engagement. Etc. In reality I want to learn this for when I need it, so I can be as good as any attacker I may have to face. You never know what someone else knows. But I'd like to have this training so I can rely on my trained instinct, and have an advantage of skills. Unfortunately, going to the range weekly doesn't teach you this.

 

[BGE541]

A lot of reas and I've always just loved learning new tactics, fight styles, methods of engagement. Etc. In reality I want to learn this for when I need it, so I can be as good as any attacker I may have to face. You never know what someone else knows. But I'd like to have this training so I can rely on my trained instinct, and have an advantage of skills. Unfortunately, going to the range weekly doesn't teach you this.

Not trying to squash your goals but it would be my opinion and observation that a brother in arms would not be your attacker. That being said you dont need the most aggressive (costly) training avalible. You say your looking for training that would allow you to rely on instinct and effectively eliminate the threat(s). I would consider afew things.

One, fundamentals i.e. consistant cheek weld, sight alignment, trigger pull ect ect

Two, reasonable accuracy with your firearm, smooth reloading, the ability to assess and correct a malfunction or stoppage. As simple as it seems take a buddy to the range. Have him load your mags and throw afew spent casings in the mag to test and build your ability to clear a stoppage. Make bets as to who can get a quicker reaction and more accurately hit targets. Actually bet something you don't want to lose ( or $$$) talk trash to eachother when you shoot put the pressure on, do 30 legit pushups the shoot a fast paced course of fire for accuracy. Log your shooting and note improvements or setbacks then go from on to other more difficult areas of shooting for you. Dry fire at the range working on your trigger break, follow through. Anything that will replace the lethargic temp and lackluster mindset of shooting the same old course of fire whail at a resting heart rate of 60bpm. You get the point.

Three, the use of any and all cover and concealment. I.e. tactical advantage.


I am not saying this will allow you to kick in doors and be a pointman but it will build solid fundamentals. Very few things come close to the importance of accuracy and proficincy. Chances are is someone is trying to assault you with a firearm or you need to stop the guy that thinks he's entitled to what's your, success or demise will be bases on accuracy and efficiency. Both which can have a fruitful beginning at the range. (Items one and two)

Just my. 02 not a big carbine fan so I may be alittle off base.

Thank care,

Reed

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

No I"m not saying a brother in arms will be my attacker, but in a the volatile world that we now live in, you never know what's next. It isn't for a what if scenario, it's for a when it does happen scenario. And that makes sense to get some preliminary self training, I know the basics and have fair accuracy at a distance, I have however never put myself under pressure while shooting. I'll start my own training, but I still want to formal training.

Any opinions on the OFA Tactical rifle 1 and 2?

 

[BGE541]

Understood. My implication was that in a scenario or hypothetical being addressed I see 'tactics' as an important aspect but more so solid fundamentals, familiarity and accuracy as what's going to allow you too walk out of a confrontation of this random, unplanned nature. Enjoy your training!


Reed

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

That makes sense, Thanks for the advice, I'll make sure I'm more than well versed with my fundamentals; because being good enough, isn't quite good enough. I'll practice these until I'm at the point where self training can't do anything more.

I think it's time to go buy a few thousand rounds for this weekend.

 

[TapRackNGo]

I think any training where you can create some stress induced failures is invaluable. Look up Thunder Ranch

 

[A Nomadic Hobo]

That looks good, they're completely full though, does anyone have opinions of OFA's Tactical rifle 1 and 2 coarses?

 

[Stomper]

I can't give an opinion on OFA, but one key element in surviving an attack is INSTANT VIOLENCE OF ACTION. This is a mindset brought out by practice, practice, practice. It isn't relegated to any one particular weapon, scenario, or fighting style. I actually get bored (and disgusted) REAL FAST with the type of "training" that sits there and "mentally masturbates" for hours and hours on "what if's", and if "x" occurs they you do "y" formula-thinking, "dungeons and dragons" crapola.

You get jumped and can't bring a weapon to bear, you hit, bite, scratch, gouge... and by that I mean (for instance) when you punch a guy in the face its FURY UNLEASHED... your target is the back of his skull and his face just happens to be in the way, or if you have to bite, you spit out the chunk of flesh you just excised from your attacker. If you ARE able to bring a weapon out, you stab, slash, and/or pump overwhelming firepower into your adversaries, until they break... or you run dry. It freaks MOST aggressors the hell out, causing them to focus on one thing... Escape.

It's a way to increase your survival rate... Focus on that kind of training.

Back in my Army days (in my jungle tour) I was part of a unit that sported NINE M60 machineguns, TWELVE M203/M16's, ELEVEN M16's and THIRTY-TWO 1911's, eleven bayonets (don't fit M60's and M203's), and THIRTY-TWO Gerber daggers... per 32-man platoon. Each M60 had 800-1000 rounds carried between the gunner and AG, each team leader and squad leader had a M203 with 210-rounds of 5.56 and 10-15 rounds of 40mm HE, the Platoon leader and Platoon Sgt. and M60 AG had M16'S with 210-rounds of 5.56, and everyone had a 1911 with 35 rounds of .45ACP... Now imagine twelve line platoons kitted out like that, completely mobile and homicidal with a propensity for violence of action of the likes few have ever seen... Oh yeah, mercy me.

My point is, for all that KILLER hardware we had, it was merely our tools, WE were the weapons. That's how we trained, that's how we fought, and that's why we survived. I encourage you to do the same.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Stomper probably wouldn't be the ideal person to pull practical jokes on; as in no waiting around the dark corner and yelling 'boo!' with a rubber knife in one hand.

 

[Stomper]

LMAO... Although I'm MUCH more mellow in my middle-agedness, you're right about practical jokes. I myself (as a rule) don't do 'em to others (except on my booger eatin' morons for teenagers, occasionally) cause I've seen them end in tears to one degree or another... But on the other hand, I am a verbal comedian of epic proportions.

 

[aslinged]

To the OP, if you're serious you need to find someone to help you formulate plan. Go off one class to the next willy nilly and you'll be all broke and half trained in no time. Top instructors are charging pretty serious money these days. Right now you don't have a clear picture of all the elements. To borrow from old Rumsfeld, if you can take your unknown unknowns into known unknowns you'll be in a good place to start allocating your cash, finding proper instructors and generally setting out the guidelines of a comprehensive plan. With no small amount of experience in this myself, I can tell you with confidence you're going to have to look outside the state line to get a complete package. To your OFA question, that is probably an ideal place to start learning carbine, shotgun and handgun. As well you might find some folks there who could help you formulate your overall plan.

 

[fd15k]

Start with weapon manipulation classes (usually level 1 & 2) from any reputable company. Costs vary, but usually in the $500-600 range for 2 day class. Since it's fairly difficult to get a good course in Oregon, might also need to factor in travel and lodging ($300-400), but that opens up a ton of opportunities - Gunsite, Craft Intl, Magpul Dynamics, Suarez International to name a few.

Note that it would be a good idea to figure out the curriculum of the course way ahead of time since many require a good physical shape and a heart condition might be a problem.